881
 1                IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                     NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
 2                         EASTERN DIVISION
 3  ERNEST T. BROWN, et al.,           )
                                       )
 4                Plaintiffs,          )
                                       )  No. 95 C 1890
 5           v.                        )  Chicago, Illinois
                                       )  December 1, 1997
 6  CITY OF CHICAGO,                   )  9:00 a.m.
                                       )
 7                 Defendant.          )
 8                             VOLUME 6
 9                 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - TRIAL
10             BEFORE THE HONORABLE ROBERT W. GETTLEMAN
11  APPEARANCES:
12  For the Plaintiffs:           KENNETH N. FLAXMAN, P.C.
                                  122 South Michigan Avenue
13                                Suite 1850
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60603-6107
14                                BY:  MR. KENNETH N. FLAXMAN
15                                          and
16                                FUTTERMAN & HOWARD, CHTD.
                                  122 South Michigan Avenue
17                                Suite 1850
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60603
18                                BY:  MR. CRAIG FUTTERMAN
19  For the Defendant:            MAYER, BROWN & PLATT
                                  190 South LaSalle Street
20                                Chicago, Illinois 60603
                                  BY:  MR. JAMES HOLZHAUER
21                                     MR. JEFFREY S. PIELL
                                       MS. ANGELA K. DORN
22                                     MR. ANDREW NICELY
23  Official Court Reporter:      JENNIFER S. COSTALES, CSR, RMR
                                  219 South Dearborn Street
24                                Room 1744-A
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60604
25                                (312) 427-5351

                                                                     882
                            Levitt - direct
 1       (Proceedings in open court.)
 2            THE CLERK:  95 C 1890, Ernest Brown, et al., versus
 3  City of Chicago; on trial.
 4            THE COURT:  All right.  Where did we leave off?
 5  Remind me.
 6            Did everybody have a nice holiday, I hope?
 7            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Yes.
 8            MR. PIELL:  Thank you.
 9            MR. FLAXMAN:  Well, some judges ordered counsel to
10  have a nice holiday, Judge.
11            THE COURT:  Well, I hope you obeyed the order.
12            MR. FLAXMAN:  Mr. Futterman is ill and may be joining
13  me later.
14            THE COURT:  Okay.
15            MR. FLAXMAN:  We're ready to put on our expert out of
16  order, Dr. Levitt.
17            THE COURT:  Okay, fine.
18            Please raise your right hand.
19       (Witness duly sworn.)
20           STEVEN D. LEVITT, PLAINTIFFS' WITNESS, SWORN
21                        DIRECT EXAMINATION
22  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
23  Q.  Could you state your name and spell your last name, please.
24  A.  Steven D. Levitt, L-e, v as in Victor, i-t-t.
25  Q.  And what is your business or occupation?

                                                                     883
                            Levitt - direct
 1  A.  I'm a professor of economics at the University of Chicago
 2  Department of Economics.
 3  Q.  Let me show you what has been marked as Plaintiffs' Exhibit
 4  137.  Is this a copy of your curriculum vita?
 5  A.  Yes, it is.
 6  Q.  And does that CV correctly set out your training?
 7  A.  Yes, it does.
 8  Q.  Before becoming an assistant professor at the University of
 9  Chicago, where were you employed?
10  A.  I was a junior fellow in the Harvard Society of Fellows.
11  Q.  What does it mean to be a junior fellow at the Harvard
12  Society of Fellows?
13  A.  A junior fellow is -- there are 24 of us who are chosen for
14  exemplary performance and potential in academic areas of varied
15  interest from the sciences to the humanities.
16  Q.  Did you have to teach as part of being a junior fellow?
17  A.  No, I did not.
18  Q.  Did you have to do anything as part of being a junior
19  fellow?
20  A.  No, it is a three-year honor that is afforded to
21  researchers to give them the best possible opportunity to
22  fulfill their potential.
23  Q.  And did you do research during those three years?
24  A.  Yes, I did.
25  Q.  Before becoming a junior fellow, were you employed or in

                                                                     884
                            Levitt - direct
 1  school?
 2  A.  I was -- immediately before that, I was obtaining my PhD at
 3  MIT.
 4  Q.  And in what field of study is your PhD?
 5  A.  Economics.
 6  Q.  Is there any particular branch of economics?
 7  A.  I have specialized in two different areas of economics, the
 8  first being empirical studies of the criminal justice system,
 9  and the second being empirical studies of the American
10  political system.
11  Q.  And before starting your graduate studies at MIT, were you
12  employed or were you in school?
13  A.  I was employed as a consultant, a management consultant at
14  a firm called Corporate Decisions.
15  Q.  And for how long did you work as a management consultant?
16  A.  Roughly two years.
17  Q.  And before working as a management consultant, were you in
18  school?
19  A.  Yes, I was.
20  Q.  Where were you in school?
21  A.  I did my undergraduate studies at Harvard University.
22  Q.  And did you receive a degree from Harvard University?
23  A.  I graduated summa cum laude.
24  Q.  In a particular major?
25  A.  In economics.

                                                                     885
                            Levitt - direct
 1  Q.  Now, in the course of your professional work, have you
 2  published any research?
 3  A.  Yes, I have.  I have been widely published.
 4  Q.  And just generally, has any of that research that you
 5  published concerned measuring things?
 6  A.  Yeah, virtually all of my research has involved measuring
 7  things.
 8  Q.  Could you tell us what kind of things you've measured
 9  that's been the subject of published articles?
10  A.  I have measured the causal effect of police on crime, for
11  instance.  I have measured the extent to which juvenile,
12  juvenile criminals respond to punishments in the same manner as
13  adult criminals.
14            I have measured the extent to which one consumer
15  installing Lojack in his automobile leads to the reduction in
16  auto theft for other owners of automobiles.  I have looked at
17  the effect of --
18            THE COURT:  What did you say he was installing?
19            THE WITNESS:  Lojack.
20            THE COURT:  What is that?
21            THE WITNESS:  Lojack is a hidden radio transmitter
22  device that is put under the hood of a vehicle.
23            THE COURT:  Okay.
24  BY THE WITNESS:
25  A.  I have looked at the extent to which campaign spending

                                                                     886
                            Levitt - direct
 1  influences election outcomes.  I've looked at the determinants
 2  of voting of senators, whether they respond to the interests of
 3  the constituency or their own ideology.
 4            Is that enough or would you like me to go on?
 5  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
 6  Q.  Have you studied anything about affirmative action?
 7  A.  I have looked at the question of whether or not white and
 8  nonwhite officers are equally effective in reducing crime, and
 9  also whether there are differential patterns of arrest by white
10  and nonwhite officers.
11  Q.  Let's go to the first one you mentioned, police on crime.
12  How did you measure the impact of police on crime?
13  A.  Let me start by saying why that's difficult, which is that
14  what we're interested in in such a study is the causal
15  relationship between police and crime, the extent to which
16  adding more police will reduce crime.
17            And what makes the problem a difficult one to answer
18  is that not only do police have a causal effect on crime, but
19  crime has an effect on police.  When crime is going up, there
20  is a tendency for the political process to respond by hiring
21  more police.
22            And so many studies in the past, in fact all studies
23  in the past, when looking at the correlation between police and
24  crime, have found that police are positively correlated with
25  crime or at least not negatively correlated with crime,

                                                                     887
                            Levitt - direct
 1  suggesting in a very simplistic framework that police, in fact,
 2  increase crime rather than reduce crime.
 3            What I did, however, was to try to exploit what I
 4  would call a natural experiment of elections, mayoral
 5  elections.  It turns out that in election years, a lot more
 6  police hiring is done than in nonelection years.  But you don't
 7  think otherwise that election years will affect crime rates.
 8  So in a sense, it provides a -- election years provide a
 9  natural experiment, a forum in which you can get an exogenous
10  change in the size of the police force, which will then isolate
11  the causal relationship running from police to crime.
12  Q.  How did you measure Lojack versus The Club?
13  A.  We measured Lojack, the effect of Lojack by comparing the
14  changes in auto theft rates in cities with and without Lojack
15  before and after the introduction of Lojack and looked for
16  consistent patterns of changes in auto theft relative to other
17  crimes in those cities.
18  Q.  The study about the size of the police force and crime, was
19  that published in a refereed journal anywhere?
20  A.  Yes, it was.  That was published in the American Economic
21  Review.
22  Q.  And what is the American Economic Review?
23  A.  That is the official journal of the American Economic
24  Association, which is distributed to all members of the
25  American Economic Association.

                                                                     888
                            Levitt - direct
 1  Q.  Now, just to make clear some of the parameters on the
 2  nature of the opinions I'm going to ask you about, you're not
 3  an industrial psychologist, is that right?
 4  A.  No, I am not.
 5  Q.  And you don't have any special knowledge about how to make
 6  up tests?
 7  A.  No, I do not.
 8  Q.  And you're not an expert on the EEOC or the Uniform
 9  Guidelines for Employee Testing?
10  A.  No, I am not.
11  Q.  You're not an expert on the Society of Industrial and
12  Organizational Psychology Guidelines?
13  A.  No, I'm not.
14  Q.  And you're not an expert in the APA guidelines?
15  A.  No, I'm not.
16  Q.  You're not an expert in psychometrics?
17  A.  No, I am not.
18  Q.  And will you ever use the phrase "good psychometric
19  qualities" in your testimony today?
20  A.  Highly doubtful.
21  Q.  Okay.  Now, in the opinions that -- are the opinions that
22  I'm -- that you have formed in the course of your work in this
23  case, are they based on your personal experience with police
24  officers?
25  A.  Very --

                                                                     889
                            Levitt - direct
 1            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor --
 2            THE COURT:  Hold on.
 3            MR. HOLZHAUER:  I'm going to -- we have an objection
 4  in our pretrial order to Dr. Levitt's testimony.  I'd like the
 5  opportunity to voir dire the witness before we get into the
 6  opinions.
 7            THE COURT:  I don't think you're quite there yet.
 8            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Okay.
 9            THE COURT:  I'll let you do that.
10            When you see him, Dr. Levitt, when you see him stand
11  up, just hold your answer until I have a chance to rule,
12  please.
13            Go ahead.
14  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
15  Q.  The opinions that you've been asked to give in this case
16  are not based on conversations with police officers, is that
17  right?
18  A.  That is correct.
19  Q.  Now, to form the opinions that you have that you've been
20  asked to formulate for this case, did you read any documents
21  about this case?
22  A.  Yes, I did.
23  Q.  What did you read?
24  A.  I read --
25            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, the witness is referring

                                                                     890
                            Levitt - direct
 1  to some documents there.  I think they should either be on the
 2  record or he should be going by memory.
 3            THE COURT:  All right.
 4            Why don't you just tell us what you're looking at,
 5  Dr. Levitt.
 6            THE WITNESS:  I'm just looking at my statement of
 7  opinion that I provided in this case in order to --
 8  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
 9  Q.  Is that gong to help refresh your recollection about what
10  it was you looked at?
11  A.  That's correct.
12  Q.  And after having looked at your statement of opinion, do
13  you have a present recollection of what it was you looked at to
14  form your opinion?
15  A.  Yes.  I looked at the written test, the 1994 Chicago police
16  lieutenant test.  I looked at Dr. Barrett's testimony dated
17  October 10th, 1995.
18            I looked at some materials from the Adams case of the
19  sergeant promotion.  I looked at the Chicago City Council
20  hearings on the sergeants promotion, and I looked at the Police
21  Department Promotion and Testing Task Force Report dated
22  January 16th, 1997.
23  Q.  Now, could you tell us what it is that you've been asked to
24  give opinions about, without telling us what those opinions
25  are?

                                                                     891
                            Levitt - direct
 1  A.  I've been asked whether or not I believe it is possible to
 2  measure police performance and also to give my opinions about
 3  the proper purposes of a promotional test scheme.
 4  Q.  Now, what particular expertise do you have that makes you
 5  an expert about whether it's possible to measure police
 6  performance?
 7  A.  Well, I have the expertise of my training, which has been
 8  in measurement of issues in a wide scope of areas.  I have my
 9  background in management consulting working with a number of
10  different companies.  And I have expertise from articles I've
11  written concerning incentive schemes.
12  Q.  Have you also formed opinions about the sufficient
13  statistic?
14  A.  I have formed opinions about the sufficient statistic
15  result.
16  Q.  Without giving any opinion about this case, what is the
17  sufficient statistic?
18  A.  The sufficient statistic theorem in statistics states that
19  when you have more than one imperfect measure of a variable you
20  are trying to predict, you will get better in the sense of more
21  precise and less biased.
22            And by "biased," I mean in the statistical sense of
23  having a mean which is different from that of the variable you
24  are trying to predict.
25  Q.  Is it fair to describe you as a quantitative social

                                                                     892
                            Levitt - direct
 1  scientist?
 2  A.  Yes, that would be correct.
 3  Q.  And have you published articles as a quantitative social
 4  scientist?
 5  A.  Yes, I have.
 6  Q.  And do you have a PhD in a quantitative social science?
 7  A.  Yes, I do.
 8  Q.  And in the course of your teaching, do you teach
 9  quantitative social sciences?
10  A.  Yes, I do.
11  Q.  In addition to teaching at the University of Chicago, do
12  you have any other employment at the present time?
13  A.  I am a research fellow at the American Bar Foundation.
14  Q.  And what is your responsibility as a research fellow at the
15  American Bar Foundation?
16  A.  I have no formal responsibilities.  I'm asked to continue
17  doing the type of research that I think is the proper and most
18  useful research.
19  Q.  And is that type of research quantitative social science?
20  A.  Yes, it is.
21            MR. FLAXMAN:  Judge, I would tender Dr. Levitt as an
22  expert able to offer opinions about quantitative social
23  sciences, not about test validity or the other things that are
24  mentioned in the objection.
25            MR. HOLZHAUER:  May I voir dire the witness, please?

                                                                     893
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1            THE COURT:  Sure.
 2  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
 3  Q.  Good morning, Dr. Levitt.
 4  A.  Good morning.
 5  Q.  I understand from the summary of your report that you
 6  prepared that you are going to testify that the Chicago Police
 7  Department's policy of basing promotion decisions exclusively
 8  on the outcome of test scores is ill advised and difficult to
 9  justify, is that correct?
10  A.  That is correct.
11  Q.  And you are going to testify that it's possible to measure
12  the job performance of a police sergeant?
13  A.  That is correct.
14  Q.  You're going to testify that there is a wealth of data from
15  a police department's job performance history that could be and
16  should be utilized in promotion testing?
17  A.  That is correct.
18  Q.  And you're going to testify that basing promotion decisions
19  on past job performance rather than test scores should lead to
20  greater effort on the part of police officers to perform their
21  duties as well as possible?
22  A.  That is correct.
23  Q.  I believe those are the four central elements in your
24  testimony, is that correct?
25  A.  Yes.

                                                                     894
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1  Q.  Are you an expert on promotional testing?
 2  A.  No, I'm not.
 3  Q.  Are you an expert on performance evaluation?
 4  A.  No, I'm not.
 5  Q.  Did you have any direct knowledge about the data maintained
 6  by the Chicago Police Department regarding police officers' job
 7  performance history when you formed your opinion?
 8  A.  Not direct evidence, no.
 9  Q.  Have you had any formal training in the field of industrial
10  psychology?
11  A.  No.
12  Q.  Now, I understand from your deposition and from your
13  testimony earlier that you're not going to be offering any
14  testimony as to the validity of the 1994 exam, is that correct?
15  A.  That is correct.
16  Q.  And you're not an expert on test creation or test
17  validation, is that correct?
18  A.  No, I'm not.  That is correct, yes.
19  Q.  Have you ever done any study of the content validity of an
20  employment test?
21  A.  No.
22  Q.  Have you done a criterion-related validation study?
23  A.  No.
24  Q.  A construct validation study?
25  A.  No.

                                                                     895
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1  Q.  In fact, at the time of your deposition, you didn't know
 2  what a construct validation study is, is that correct?
 3  A.  That is correct.
 4  Q.  Are you an expert on merit selection of police managers?
 5  A.  No.
 6  Q.  Have you done any studies on merit selection of police
 7  officers and police managers?
 8  A.  No.
 9  Q.  Have you ever studied whether merit selection has an
10  adverse impact?
11  A.  No, I have not.
12  Q.  And have you ever studied whether merit selection methods
13  are valid within the meaning of the EEOC guidelines?
14  A.  No, I have not.
15  Q.  Now, I understand from your deposition that you're not
16  going to give any testimony or any opinion as to whether the
17  1994 exam was developed in conformity with the EEOC guidelines
18  and similar professional standards, is that correct?
19  A.  That's correct.
20  Q.  And you wouldn't have the expertise to give such an
21  opinion, is that correct?
22            MR. FLAXMAN:  Let me object, Judge.  We've
23  established all of this on direct.  The purpose of this voir
24  dire is just to insult the witness.
25            MR. HOLZHAUER:  No, it's not.

                                                                     896
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1            THE COURT:  I don't think he's insulted at all.  It's
 2  helping me understand what he is proposing to testify about and
 3  what he's not proposing to testify about.
 4  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
 5  Q.  You wouldn't have the expertise to testify about whether
 6  the exam was prepared in conformity of the EEOC guidelines and
 7  professional principles, correct?
 8  A.  No, I would not.
 9  Q.  Did you read the EEOC guidelines before giving your
10  opinion?
11  A.  I have seen the EEOC guidelines.
12  Q.  Did you read them before forming your opinion?
13  A.  Not immediately before, no.
14  Q.  At any time before then?
15  A.  I believe that I had prior to that time seen those
16  guidelines.
17  Q.  Had you read them?
18  A.  I believe that seeing and reading are -- yes.
19  Q.  You're not going to offer any testimony about the job
20  analysis conducted by Barrett & Associates, is that correct?
21  A.  That is correct.
22  Q.  Now, before giving your opinion, you reviewed only the
23  written job knowledge portion of the exam, is that correct?
24  A.  That's correct.
25  Q.  You didn't review the oral briefing exercise?

                                                                     897
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1  A.  No.
 2  Q.  You didn't review the in-basket exercise?
 3  A.  No, I did not.
 4  Q.  And I understand from your deposition that you spent about
 5  ten hours reviewing the materials that you described earlier in
 6  drafting your opinion, is that correct?
 7  A.  That is correct.
 8  Q.  Now, most of that material you reviewed related to the
 9  sergeants exam and the Adams litigation, is that correct?
10  A.  That is correct.
11  Q.  You didn't speak with any Chicago police officers before
12  you formed your opinion, did you?
13  A.  No, I did not.
14  Q.  Now, I read in your deposition that you have a reputation
15  for solving difficult problems, for figuring out ways to solve
16  problems that others have been unable to solve, is that
17  correct?
18  A.  That is correct.
19  Q.  You try to come up with statistical methods to solve those
20  problems, right?
21  A.  Typically.
22  Q.  And that's what you've done in this case, you've considered
23  the problem of how best to select candidates for promotion
24  within a police department and have stated your views on the
25  optimal selection method, is that correct?

                                                                     898
                          Levitt - voir dire
 1  A.  That is correct.
 2  Q.  But you're not an expert on promotional testing or on
 3  employee selection or performance evaluation or industrial
 4  psychology or merit selection of police officers or test
 5  creation or validation?
 6            MR. FLAXMAN:  Object to the form of the question.
 7            THE COURT:  It's a long compound question.
 8            Can you answer it?  Do you understand it?
 9            THE WITNESS:  I believe I can answer it.
10  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
11  Q.  Are you an expert on any of those areas?
12  A.  No, I'm not.
13            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, the City objects to
14  Dr. Levitt's testimony as an expert in this case.  I'm sure he
15  has his areas of expertise.  But he's not an expert on anything
16  at issue in this case.  He's essentially acting as an advisory
17  judge.  He's a smart man.  He's on accomplished man.
18            He's been asked to think about and give his views on
19  a promotion process that's totally outside his areas of
20  expertise.  And he's prepared to do so based on the material,
21  some of which is of questionable relevance, that Mr. Flaxman
22  has given him.
23            To paraphrase the Seventh Circuit standard in this
24  area, his expert testimony would not be expert opinion, merely
25  opinion given by an expert, and not on -- not one with

                                                                     899
                            Levitt - direct
 1  expertise in the relevant areas.  I don't think it's proper
 2  testimony and I don't think it should be admitted.
 3            THE COURT:  You don't have to say anything.  You
 4  know, what you've done is you've narrowed his area of testimony
 5  to the point where he's obviously qualified to testify about
 6  the areas that you have narrowed him down to.  Whether that is
 7  enough to win the case for Mr. Flaxman has yet to be seen.  I'm
 8  interested in Mr. Flaxman's burden of showing equally available
 9  alternatives, and what he's going to be testifying to, I think,
10  is related to that subject.  It's a building block, I think,
11  more than the entire structure.  But I think it's something I'm
12  interested in.
13            And I think it will be of help to the Court, at least
14  at this stage I think it will be, and I'm sure you'll have
15  plenty of opportunity to argue that it doesn't do it.  But
16  right now I'm going to deny the motion and I will let
17  Dr. Levitt testify.  All right.
18  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
19  Q.  Now, Dr. Levitt, now that you're allowed to give your
20  opinions, do you have an opinion as to whether or not it is
21  possible to measure the performance of a Chicago police
22  sergeant?
23  A.  Yes, I believe it is possible.
24  Q.  What is that opinion?
25  A.  I believe it is possible.

                                                                     900
                            Levitt - direct
 1  Q.  And what is the basis for that opinion?
 2  A.  It is based on my extensive experience with measurement of
 3  other issues in the past.  It's based on the premise of modern
 4  science that most things, all things are measurable, and more
 5  recently, the premise of modern social science that things can
 6  be measured.
 7            And it's based on the premise that in organizations
 8  other than the Chicago Police Department, including the private
 9  sector and the U.S. military, there appears to be attempts to
10  measure performance on the job.
11  Q.  You talked about that you have an opinion about incentives.
12  What do you mean by "incentives"?
13  A.  By "incentives," I mean --
14  Q.  Could I move the microphone so I could hear you better?
15            MR. FLAXMAN:  Is that on?
16            THE COURT:  It's on.
17            THE WITNESS:  Do you want it louder?
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  I'm having trouble hearing.  I think
19  you have a cold.  Could you get closer to it, so I could hear
20  better.
21            THE WITNESS:  Yes.
22            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.
23  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
24  Q.  What do you mean by "incentives"?
25  A.  By "incentives," I mean that individuals respond to the

                                                                     901
                            Levitt - direct
 1  rewards and punishments that are given to them.
 2            And by "respond," I mean change their behavior in
 3  such a way as to increase the rewards and reduce the
 4  punishments.
 5  Q.  And do you see -- have you seen incentives in
 6  organizations?
 7  A.  Yes, absolutely.
 8  Q.  Have you studied that?
 9  A.  Yes, I have.
10  Q.  In what context have you studied incentives the way you
11  defined it?
12  A.  I have published two papers on the topic of incentives,
13  directly related to incentives.  But in many ways all of my
14  papers related to incentives.
15  Q.  And in looking at the promotional system that's at issue in
16  this case, what incentives did you see?  Or not -- what
17  opportunity for incentives did you see?
18  A.  It's my impression --
19            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, I'm just going to object
20  to this testimony.  I don't see incentives -- how incentives
21  are relevant to the issues in this case.
22            THE COURT:  I'm beginning to wonder myself.
23            MR. FLAXMAN:  Oh, I think it will be very clear.
24            THE COURT:  I'll let him try to tie it up.
25  BY MR. FLAXMAN:

                                                                     902
                            Levitt - direct
 1  Q.  What did you see about incentives, or the lack of
 2  incentives?
 3  A.  It is my belief that by ignoring all of the information on
 4  the job of police sergeants in the Chicago Police Department in
 5  basing the promotion decision on a battery of tests rather than
 6  on their on-the-job performance, that that gives possibly the
 7  wrong incentives for the police officers on the job to exert
 8  maximum effort.
 9            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Object.  Again, Your Honor, it seems
10  to me that he might be absolutely right that the testing
11  process doesn't give sergeants or police officers the proper
12  incentives to perform at their previous ranks, but that has
13  nothing to do with whether the selection process promotes the
14  best qualified people for lieutenant.
15            MR. FLAXMAN:  I think that -- well, that's his
16  burden.  My burden, if we're going on the equally valid less
17  discriminatory alternative, is that there is something that
18  reflects best performance, and it goes to that issue.
19            MR. HOLZHAUER:  That's not what he's testifying about
20  now, Your Honor.
21            THE COURT:  I think I can give it the weight it
22  deserves.  Thank you.  Overruled.
23  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
24  Q.  And you talked about that you formed an opinion as to
25  whether or not the promotional system basing promotions on a

                                                                     903
                            Levitt - direct
 1  test is ill advised.  And what's your opinion about that?
 2  A.  I believe it is ill advised.
 3  Q.  And what's the basis for that opinion?
 4  A.  The basis for that opinion is, first, the sufficient
 5  statistic result that I reported earlier, which is that when
 6  there is more than one measure of performance, in this case
 7  there being on-the-job data that is available and also the
 8  performance on the battery of tests, that basing a promotion
 9  decision solely on one of those pieces of data rather than on
10  all available will yield a less, a less precise measure of
11  future performance.
12  Q.  Now, when you talked about incentives, could you just maybe
13  make it more understandable, what kind of incentives have you
14  studied in other contexts?
15  A.  Within the context of the criminal justice system, I've
16  studied the incentives of criminals, of individuals to either
17  engage or not engage in criminal behavior.  I have studied the
18  incentives for employees to come forward with bad news to their
19  employers in a timely manner.
20  Q.  Now, what do you mean by "bad news"?
21  A.  By "bad news" I mean private knowledge about -- about an
22  outcome that will be -- that will affect a firm profitability.
23  Q.  Now, if you have a test that's based on memorizing general
24  orders and you promote based on scores on that test, is
25  memorizing general orders the incentive?

                                                                     904
                            Levitt - direct
 1  A.  I believe that if I were a police officer faced with those
 2  incentives, I would spend a lot of time memorizing general
 3  orders and be less concerned about my performance on the job.
 4  Q.  And if promotions were based on past performance, would
 5  then the past performance be the incentive?
 6  A.  Yes.  I would expect that if promotions were based on past
 7  performance, then I would alter my past performance in order to
 8  make myself more likely to be promoted.
 9  Q.  Now, when you gave the opinion that you believe it's
10  possible to measure the performance of a sergeant, how would
11  you go about measuring the performance of a sergeant?
12  A.  Well, there is certainly a number of dimensions along which
13  one could measure the performance of a police officer.
14            I think the right way to start in such an exercise
15  would be to hold all other factors constant and think about
16  varying one factor at a time.  So, for instance, if two police
17  officers, two police sergeants were identical except that one
18  showed up for work regularly and the other frequently missed
19  work, it would seem to me quite clear that the one who shows up
20  for work has in some sense better performance than the one who
21  does not show up for work.
22            And I would systematically go through the various
23  aspects of job performance attempting to isolate such factors.
24  Q.  And is that the kind of work that you do as a quantitative
25  social scientist?

                                                                     905
                            Levitt - direct
 1  A.  Yes, it is.
 2  Q.  Now, do you -- well, do you think it will be impossible to
 3  measure the performance of sergeants?
 4  A.  No, I do not.
 5  Q.  Is the general principle of incentives that if you reward
 6  someone for behavior, that that behavior becomes more frequent?
 7  A.  Yes, it is.
 8  Q.  And in forming your opinions about this present system was
 9  ill advised, did you consider the trade-offs involved in
10  designing a promotional process?
11  A.  Yes, yes, I did.
12  Q.  What trade-offs did you consider?
13  A.  I think there are three factors that must be traded off in
14  the design of such a system.
15            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, I object.  I think this
16  is beyond his area of expertise, design promotion processes.
17            MR. FLAXMAN:  This is an economic answer to this
18  question.
19            THE COURT:  He's testified that there are ways to
20  measure performance.  I think this is part of that.  Overruled.
21  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
22  Q.  As an economist, what trade-offs would in your opinion be
23  important to consider in designing a promotional process?
24  A.  There are three factors I would trade off.  The first is
25  promoting the most able candidates.  The second is the cost

                                                                     906
                            Levitt - cross
 1  of -- the cost of designing and implementing the promotional
 2  scheme.  And the third would be the incentives that the
 3  promotional scheme gives to all in the organization, regardless
 4  of whether or not they are themselves at that time in search of
 5  a promotion.
 6  Q.  Now, getting back to measuring things, do you think -- is
 7  it your opinion that it's possible to measure whether scores on
 8  a promotional test are correlated with performance on the job?
 9  A.  I think it would be possible to do that, yes.
10            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.  I have nothing further.
11                        CROSS-EXAMINATION
12  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
13  Q.  Dr. Levitt, you testified that you're a quantitative social
14  scientist?
15  A.  That's correct.
16  Q.  Would that description fit most University of Chicago
17  economists?
18  A.  Yes, it would.
19  Q.  Most economists generally?
20  A.  Most, yes.
21  Q.  And a lot of other people in other social sciences?
22  A.  Yes.
23  Q.  You also testified that you considered the military
24  promotion process in your opinion, is that correct?  You said
25  you looked at something from the U.S. military, what was that?

                                                                     907
                            Levitt - cross
 1  A.  No.  I believe what I said is that it is my opinion that
 2  the U.S. military does not use a battery of tests as the
 3  primary means of promotion.
 4  Q.  Do you recall in your deposition that you testified that
 5  you had no specific knowledge of the U.S. military promotion
 6  procedures?
 7  A.  Yes, that is correct.
 8  Q.  Now, part of your testimony, or a good part of your
 9  testimony, is based on this notion that when there are multiple
10  and perfect predictors, a better prediction could be made by
11  using all of those predictors, is that correct?
12  A.  All or even multiple.
13  Q.  And by better prediction, you mean a more accurate
14  prediction of job performance, is that correct?
15  A.  That is correct.
16  Q.  Have you done any studies to determine whether that
17  methodology would result in an adverse impact against minority
18  candidates?
19  A.  No, I have not.
20  Q.  Are you aware of any such studies?
21  A.  I am not personally aware, although I imagine they exist.
22  Q.  Are you aware of any validation studies on police promotion
23  processes developed as a result of your methodology?
24  A.  No, I'm not.
25  Q.  You didn't study the validity of Chicago Police Department

                                                                     908
                            Levitt - cross
 1  performance evaluations, did you?
 2  A.  No, I did not.
 3  Q.  Now, you testified that a number of things could be
 4  measured to measure performance, is that correct?
 5  A.  That is correct.
 6  Q.  In your report you indicated that one of them might be
 7  number of arrests, is that correct?
 8  A.  That was one of the hypothetical measures that I offered,
 9  yes.
10  Q.  But you also acknowledged that there could be problems with
11  number of arrests.  Do you remember that?
12  A.  Yes, that's certainly true.
13  Q.  It could give officers an incentive to make unwarranted
14  arrests, correct?
15  A.  That is true.
16  Q.  You testified that using performance measures would give
17  officers an incentive to perform better, is that correct?
18  A.  That's correct.
19  Q.  But you looked at no data in the Chicago Police Department
20  to support that conclusion?
21  A.  No.  I based that conclusion on evidence in other settings.
22  Q.  In other police settings?
23  A.  Other human settings.
24  Q.  Do you know of any data in the police area that supports
25  that?

                                                                     909
                            Levitt - cross
 1  A.  Well, I would say yes.
 2  Q.  What?
 3  A.  For instance, when community policing is introduced, that
 4  changes the way in which officers are told to perform their
 5  jobs.
 6  Q.  What data do you know that supports that?  Have you
 7  reviewed any studies supporting it?
 8            MR. FLAXMAN:  I think the witness should have a
 9  chance to answer one question before he gets another one.
10            THE COURT:  I think that's a good point.
11  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
12  Q.  What data do you know that supports that?
13  A.  No formal data.
14  Q.  Now, you also test -- you also suggest in your report that
15  the department might consider the fraction of arrests leading
16  to conviction as a performance measure, is that correct?
17  A.  That is one of the measures I offered, yes.
18  Q.  Do you know if those statistics are kept?
19  A.  I would believe that they would be kept.
20  Q.  Do you know if those statistics --
21  A.  I do not know.
22  Q.  Do you think that all arrests not leading to conviction are
23  bad arrests?
24  A.  No.  I have not stated that opinion.
25  Q.  Now, you also suggested that the department might consider

                                                                     910
                            Levitt - cross
 1  the number of instances in which the failure to appear before a
 2  judge led to dismissal of charges, is that correct?
 3  A.  That's correct.
 4  Q.  Do you know if those statistics are kept?
 5  A.  I believe those statistics are kept.
 6  Q.  Do you know if they are kept?
 7  A.  I do not know.
 8  Q.  Do you know how frequently those kinds of things occur?
 9  A.  Not frequently one would hope.
10  Q.  Would you have to consider why the officer failed to
11  appear?
12  A.  Yes, you would.
13  Q.  Now, you also mention in your report citizen complaints as
14  something that could be measured.  Do you know if statistics
15  are kept on citizen complaints?
16  A.  I do not know that.
17  Q.  Would you have to evaluate the reason for a complaint?
18  A.  I wouldn't say "have to."
19  Q.  Well, isn't it possible that a hard-working, aggressive
20  police officer trying to reduce crime and make a lot of good
21  arrests might attract more citizens' complaints precisely
22  because he's doing his job?
23            MR. FLAXMAN:  Judge, this is the kind of speculation
24  that we all know the answer that it's not true.  But the
25  studies -- but this is the kind of --

                                                                     911
                            Levitt - cross
 1            THE COURT:  This is cross-examination.  It's opinion
 2  evidence.  I'm going to let him do it.  Overruled.
 3  BY THE WITNESS:
 4  A.  Could you please repeat that last question.
 5  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
 6  Q.  Isn't it possible that hard-working police officers, trying
 7  to reduce crime and making lots of good arrests, might also
 8  attract more citizens' complaints as a result of that?
 9  A.  Yes, it is.  And that's why all of these measures that I
10  put forth need to be taken in the proper context, which is that
11  as I and all here are well aware, none of them are perfect.
12  They're all imperfect.  And what one does under the sufficient
13  statistic  --
14  Q.  Well --
15            THE COURT:  Let him finish.
16  BY THE WITNESS:
17  A.  -- theorem is to attempt to use a number of imperfect
18  measures in order to -- in order to balance off their
19  imperfections.
20  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
21  Q.  What about a measure that runs in the opposite direction?
22  A.  I'm sorry, I don't understand that question.
23  Q.  Well, the direction might be that citizens' complaints in
24  some situations might be negatively correlated with police
25  performance?

                                                                     912
                            Levitt - cross
 1  A.  In some circumstances, that might be true.
 2            But one might also argue that in some cases, a good
 3  performance on a battery of tests might be negatively
 4  correlated.
 5  Q.  Well, you've looked at no studies of that?
 6  A.  No.
 7  Q.  You don't know that -- you have no data on that?
 8  A.  No, I do not.
 9  Q.  You also proposed that the department might rely on
10  psychological assessment of things like leadership abilities,
11  is that correct?
12  A.  That's correct.
13  Q.  You're not an expert on psychological testing, are you?
14  A.  No, I'm not.
15  Q.  Have you looked at the controversy over psychological
16  testing in the police department?
17  A.  No, I have not.
18  Q.  You also mentioned performance on job-related physical
19  agility tests, is that correct?
20  A.  That's correct.
21  Q.  That's physical agility needed to be a watch commander?
22  A.  Perhaps not, but --
23  Q.  Have you studied --
24            MR. FLAXMAN:  Judge, Judge --
25            MR. HOLZHAUER:  It was a yes or no question, Your

                                                                     913
                            Levitt - cross
 1  Honor.  He answered no.
 2            THE COURT:  That's right.  It was a yes or no
 3  question.
 4  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
 5  Q.  Have you studied the impact -- the adverse impact of
 6  physical agility tests on candidates, particularly against
 7  women?
 8  A.  No, I have not but --
 9  Q.  Thank you.
10            You also said the department might consider the
11  candidate's record of volunteering for the most difficult,
12  dangerous, or least desirable assignments, is that correct?
13  A.  That is correct.
14  Q.  Do you know if statistics are kept on that?
15  A.  No, I do not.
16  Q.  Do you know whether the department makes those assignments
17  by asking for volunteers?
18  A.  No, I do not.
19  Q.  Now, after you mentioned all these possibilities, you
20  acknowledged, I think in your report, that you're not an expert
21  in assessing job performance, is that correct?
22  A.  That's correct.
23  Q.  Have you done any studies assessing the skills and
24  abilities that are needed for the job of a Chicago police
25  lieutenant?

                                                                     914
                            Levitt - cross
 1  A.  No, I have not.
 2  Q.  Do you know whether the same things that make a good police
 3  officer necessarily make a good lieutenant?
 4  A.  No, I do not.
 5  Q.  Do you know if you need good managerial skills, for
 6  example, leadership ability to be a beat cop?
 7  A.  I wouldn't say I know that, no.
 8  Q.  Now, when you formed your opinion, had you looked at the
 9  1983 Landian-Farr study on problems with assessing performance?
10  A.  No, I had not.
11  Q.  How about the 1991 Borman study on the same topic?
12  A.  No, I had not looked at any such study.
13  Q.  Had you looked at the 1979 study by Karon-Larson on
14  problems associated with use of infrequently occurring field
15  events as performance measures?
16            MR. FLAXMAN:  Let me object to this.  I think he has
17  to -- before he could be cross-examined, he has to agree that
18  it's a recognized something that he should know about.  He's
19  just repeating articles to him which he doesn't know about.
20            THE COURT:  Well, I don't know if he knows about them
21  or not.  I want to know what he knows and what he doesn't know.
22  Overruled.
23  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
24  Q.  Did you look at that Karon and Larson study?
25  A.  No, I have not.

                                                                     915
                           Levitt - redirect
 1  Q.  How about the Conway and Huffcut 1997 study of the
 2  reliability of supervisory performance evaluations?
 3  A.  No, I did not.
 4  Q.  Now, during your deposition you were shown a nine-page
 5  bibliography of performance appraisal literature, do you
 6  remember that?
 7  A.  Yes, I do.
 8  Q.  And you testified that you weren't familiar with any of
 9  that literature, is that correct?
10  A.  That is correct.
11            MR. HOLZHAUER:  No further questions.
12            THE COURT:  Mr. Flaxman.
13                      REDIRECT EXAMINATION
14  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
15  Q.  Could you explain what you meant by using a number of
16  imperfect measures?
17  A.  What I meant is that none of the measures that I propose do
18  I think are perfect.  And so in designing the right sort of
19  incentive scheme, what one needs to do is trade off the various
20  imperfect measures in such a way as to come up with the best
21  possible scheme.
22            And I don't consider myself an expert in determining
23  what the exact trade-offs are.  I think the right group to do
24  such a determination is the leadership of the Chicago police
25  force, the mayor of the City of Chicago, or those who the mayor

                                                                     916
                           Levitt - redirect
 1  thinks are the appropriate group for doing so.
 2  Q.  Now, you were asked a lot of questions about how you don't
 3  know about being a police officer or being an industrial
 4  psychologist.  Have you ever done any research as an economist
 5  in anything at all about police efficiency?
 6  A.  Well, I have done a number of studies relating police
 7  forces to crime, reduction in crime, the composition of police
 8  forces and reductions in crime, the composition of police
 9  forces and the pattern of arrests related to that.
10  Q.  When you say "composition of police forces," what do you
11  mean?
12  A.  I mean racial and gender composition.
13  Q.  Have you looked at affirmative action of police hiring and
14  the effect on police efficiency?
15  A.  Yes, I have.
16  Q.  How did you do that?
17            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, I object.  I don't think
18  it's been established this work was done prior to forming his
19  opinion.
20            THE COURT:  Why don't you put a time on it.
21  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
22  Q.  Did you do any of that work before you gave an opinion in
23  this case?
24  A.  Yes.  Along with Professor John Donahue of Stanford Law
25  School, we began working with the EEOC on a project in 1996

                                                                     917
                           Levitt - redirect
 1  relating --
 2  Q.  And that was --
 3            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, object to this testimony
 4  as beyond the scope of cross.
 5            THE COURT:  No.  I think you've tried to show what he
 6  knew and didn't know, and this is in the same vain.
 7            Go ahead.
 8  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
 9  Q.  What was that research about?
10  A.  That research was looking across cities in an attempt to
11  determine whether cities that had increases in female and
12  minority representation on the police force had any
13  differences, discernible differences in patterns of crime and
14  also whether or not any discernible differences in racial
15  patterns of arrests.
16  Q.  And where did the data come from to do that study?
17  A.  Some of the data came from the EEOC.  Others -- other data
18  came from the FBI.
19  Q.  Was that a straightforward correlation of two bits of two
20  data sets?
21  A.  No.  I wouldn't call that straightforward.
22  Q.  What would you call it?
23  A.  I would say it's a rather subtle relationship one is trying
24  to tease out because of the problems with reverse causality,
25  that the hiring of minority and female police officers may be

                                                                     918
                           Levitt - redirect
 1  being caused by the crime -- changes in crime rather than
 2  vice-versa.
 3  Q.  Mr. Holzhauer asked you questions about adverse impact and
 4  whether you think that using more factors to make promotions
 5  would have an impact on -- an adverse impact.
 6            Let me ask you the same question starting with the
 7  assumption that as a group, the sergeants from whom the
 8  lieutenant promotions came, that all racial groups are equally
 9  qualified, that the African-American sergeants are equally
10  qualified as the Hispanic sergeants are equally qualified as
11  the white sergeants to be promoted to lieutenant.
12            Would you have an opinion about whether using more
13  indicators of promotability than a single test would result in
14  a more representative group of those being promoted than came
15  out from this test?
16            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Object, Your Honor.  It's beyond the
17  scope of cross, and I think it's also beyond the expertise of
18  the witness.
19            THE COURT:  Overruled.
20  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
21  Q.  Would you --
22  A.  Could you please repeat the question.
23  Q.  Do you remember my prologue about the equally qualified
24  group?
25  A.  Yes, I do.

                                                                     919
                           Levitt - recross
 1  Q.  And starting with that assumption and with the stipulated
 2  fact that the test that was used here had an adverse impact, a
 3  severe adverse impact on minorities, do you have an opinion
 4  about whether using additional indicators of promotability
 5  other than in addition -- other than or in addition to the
 6  written test would result in less of an adverse impact on
 7  minorities?
 8  A.  Yes, I do have an opinion.
 9  Q.  And what is that opinion?
10  A.  That opinion is that if it is true, the assumption that the
11  two groups are equally well qualified, then on measures of job
12  performance such as attendance, past attendance, one would
13  expect that there should be no difference across groups in such
14  a measure.  And so one would expect that combining a measure in
15  which there were no differences of cross groups with the
16  measure in which there were clear adverse impact should lead to
17  a reduction in adverse impact for the combined measures.
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.  Nothing further.
19                       RECROSS-EXAMINATION
20  BY MR. HOLZHAUER:
21  Q.  Well, you've done no studies of adverse impact, is that
22  correct?
23  A.  No, I have not done that.
24            MR. HOLZHAUER:  No further questions.
25            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you, Dr. Levitt.

                                                                     920
                               Levitt -
 1            THE COURT:  I have a couple questions.
 2            You're not -- you're not giving me an opinion on this
 3  particular test, are you?
 4            THE WITNESS:  No, I'm not.
 5            THE COURT:  All right.  You haven't read the test?
 6            THE WITNESS:  Well, I've looked at the written test.
 7  And since my -- since my initial statement, I've had a chance
 8  to look at some of the other components of the test as well.
 9            THE COURT:  I see, okay.  And it's your opinion then
10  I think if you boil it all down, it's your opinion that this
11  test would have likely had a less adverse impact if you
12  combined the test results with some of these other variables
13  that you were talking about?
14            THE WITNESS:  My opinion is that if the groups are
15  equally well qualified, then measures of their actual
16  performance on the job should show no adverse impact at all,
17  and the combination of the two would, therefore, have less
18  adverse impact.
19            THE COURT:  All right.  But do you know whether the
20  police department had records that could have allowed them to
21  measure and input these other variables?
22            THE WITNESS:  Well, I certainly believe that the
23  police department keeps the information on whether or not
24  employees show up to work, whether or not they're late for roll
25  call.  I know they keep records and arrest records in files

                                                                     921
 1  that they could have used at a later date to do a blind reading
 2  of those files by an outside expert for clearness and
 3  conciseness.
 4            THE COURT:  All right.  In answer to Mr. Holzhauer --
 5  some of Mr. Holzhauer's questions, you agreed that you would
 6  have to look behind some of those statistics, such as arrest
 7  records, to see if they made sense?
 8            THE WITNESS:  Right.  I think you would want to be
 9  very careful that -- very careful in the sense that if you
10  include something like arrest records or conviction rates as a
11  measure in an incentive scheme, you have to be careful that you
12  don't put such a high weight on such measures that that
13  distorts behavior in an undesirable way on police officers.
14            THE COURT:  Sort of like writing parking tickets?
15            THE WITNESS:  Correct.
16            THE COURT:  Okay.  I think I understand.  All right.
17  Thank you.
18            Any questions based on the questions I just asked?
19            MR. FLAXMAN:  Not from plaintiff.
20            MR. HOLZHAUER:  No.
21            THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you, Dr. Levitt.
22       (Witness excused.)
23            THE COURT:  What was the order of play, Mr. Flaxman?
24            MR. FLAXMAN:  We're back to the defense case with
25  Mr. DeLopez.

                                                                     922
                           DeLopez - direct
 1            MR. HOLZHAUER:  We agreed the witness could go first
 2  because of time constraints.
 3            MS. DORN:  Commander.
 4            THE COURT:  Please raise your right hand.
 5       (Witness duly sworn.)
 6            THE COURT:  Have a seat.
 7           JOSEPH A. DeLOPEZ, DEFENDANT'S WITNESS, SWORN
 8                       DIRECT EXAMINATION
 9  BY MS. DORN:
10  Q.  Mr. DeLopez, please state your full name for the record and
11  spell your last name.
12  A.  Joseph, middle initial A, DeLopez, that's capital D, e,
13  capital, L-o-p-e-z.
14  Q.  And where are you currently employed and in what capacity?
15  A.  Chicago Police Department, district commander.
16  Q.  And what is your current assignment?
17  A.  District commander.
18  Q.  Where?
19  A.  23rd District.
20  Q.  How long have you been in this assignment?
21  A.  A little over two years.
22  Q.  That's since 1995?
23  A.  Correct.
24  Q.  What are your duties as district commander in the 23rd
25  District?

                                                                     923
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  My duties as a district commander are to ensure the
 2  delivery of police services to a diverse community of
 3  approximately 100,000 people, which includes supervision of a
 4  complement of approximately 300 personnel, including watch
 5  commanders, field lieutenants, sergeants and police officers,
 6  crossing guards.
 7  Q.  Have you had a lot of responsibility for implementation of
 8  the CAPS program within your district?
 9  A.  Yes, yes, I do.
10  Q.  What are the ranks of the individuals who you supervise as
11  district commander?
12  A.  Captains, lieutenants, sergeants, police officers.
13  Q.  Are you familiar with the duties of the people who you
14  supervise?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And how are you familiar with those duties?
17  A.  From my past experience in those ranks.
18  Q.  And have you also observed those individuals in conducting
19  their job responsibilities?
20  A.  Yes, I have.
21  Q.  Could you please briefly describe your employment history
22  with the Chicago Police Department.
23  A.  Yes.  I became a police officer with the Chicago Police
24  Department in 1971.  In 1977, I was promoted to the rank of
25  sergeant.  As a sergeant, I served in various assignments with

                                                                     924
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  regard to differing responsibilities in the patrol division,
 2  traffic division, training division.  Subsequently promoted to
 3  the rank of lieutenant in 1984.
 4            Served as watch commander in the Wood Street
 5  District, the Foster Avenue District, commanding officer of
 6  Area 5 Youth.  I was then promoted to the rank of district
 7  commander in 1985.  I have been a district commander and served
 8  in the exempt ranks from 1985 to the present.
 9  Q.  All right.  I'd like to focus for a minute on your
10  assignments.  As lieutenant you said that you were a field
11  lieutenant and acting watch commander in the 13th District,
12  correct?
13  A.  Yes, 13th and 20th Districts.
14  Q.  Okay.  So you served as a field lieutenant and watch
15  commander in the patrol division?
16  A.  That's correct.
17  Q.  And did you serve in these capacities on a full-time basis?
18  A.  Yes, I did.
19  Q.  Could you briefly describe your duties and responsibilities
20  as a field lieutenant in the 13th and 20th Districts?
21  A.  Well, my duties as a field lieutenant require me to
22  supervise the activities of the officers and sergeants working
23  in the district, delivery of services, responding to calls for
24  service, giving advice, making recommendations, reviewing
25  reports.

                                                                     925
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  All right.  And could you briefly describe your duties as a
 2  watch commander.
 3  A.  As a watch commander, my duties require me to be
 4  responsible for all the activities of the district, both the
 5  station, the lockup, and the field activities, reviewing
 6  reports, reviewing arrest reports, approval of charges,
 7  ensuring the proper treatment and proper processing of persons
 8  that were taken into custody by the Chicago Police Department,
 9  conducting roll calls, doing roll call inspections, training,
10  guiding police officers and supervisors.
11  Q.  Okay.  And as watch commander, did you address your
12  subordinates orally?
13  A.  Yes, I did.
14  Q.  Did you make oral presentations?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And what did your making oral presentations to your
17  subordinates require you to do?
18  A.  It required me to review material, analyze the material,
19  and sometimes summarize the material orally to these officers
20  or the supervisors with the intent of making them aware of
21  certain provisions of our directives or policies or procedures.
22  Q.  Did you ever make oral presentations at roll call?
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  What other circumstances under which did you make oral
25  presentation to your subordinates?

                                                                     926
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  Public forums, public meetings, sometimes with regard to
 2  field activities with direction and guidance at major incidents
 3  and interviews with the media.
 4  Q.  So did you only address your officers by reading from a CO
 5  book at roll call?
 6  A.  No.  I did not.
 7  Q.  I believe that you testified that you have served as a
 8  district commander of the 14th District, is that --
 9  A.  One of the districts was the 14th District.  It was my
10  first command.
11  Q.  Okay.  And after that, what was your next position?
12  A.  After that I was -- I was promoted to the position of
13  deputy chief of patrol.
14  Q.  Now, were your duties as a district commander of the 14th
15  District essentially the same as they are now as a district
16  commander in the 23rd District?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  After district commander of the 14th District -- I'm sorry,
19  did you tell me what was your next position with the CPD?
20  A.  Deputy chief of patrol.
21  Q.  Following that?
22  A.  Following that I was assigned as district commander of the
23  10th District.
24  Q.  Okay.  And your duties as district commander of the 10th
25  District were essentially the same as they are now as the

                                                                     927
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  district commander of the 23rd District?
 2  A.  Yes.
 3  Q.  What was your next position?
 4  A.  I was assigned as the director of the training academy.
 5  Q.  And for how long did you hold that position?
 6  A.  Approximately three years, 1992 to 1995.
 7  Q.  Does that bring us to your current position as district
 8  commander for the 23rd District?
 9  A.  Yes, yes, it does.
10  Q.  And are the duties and responsibilities of the watch
11  commander and field lieutenants who served under you in your
12  capacity as district commander of the 23rd District essentially
13  the same duties and responsibilities as you held as a watch
14  commander and field lieutenant?
15  A.  Essentially, yes.
16  Q.  And are they different in any way?
17  A.  Currently they are because of the implementation of CAPS.
18  Q.  And could you explain how they are different?
19  A.  Well, with the implementation of CAPS, it's a philosophical
20  change in the police department.  It requires that police
21  officers, sergeants and lieutenants and captains have a greater
22  interaction with the public, identify problems, strategize ways
23  with which to address these problems.
24            We've increased contact with the public and more
25  responsibility for results.

                                                                     928
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  Now, in your position as district commander, have you had
 2  occasion to observe lieutenants report to you communicating
 3  orally?
 4  A.  Yes.
 5  Q.  Under what circumstances have you observed them
 6  communicating orally?
 7  A.  Well, at roll call training certainly and conducting the
 8  roll call process, in some of these public meetings which I
 9  mentioned that they have more responsibility for now, in
10  conduct of their sector and beat team meetings also.
11  Q.  Those were all communications that are in association with
12  the CAPS program that you just described?
13  A.  Not the roll call process necessarily, no, but the other
14  ones, yes.
15  Q.  Okay.  And are oral communications important to the
16  position of lieutenant?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  Have you -- what process, if any, have you observed the
19  lieutenants who you supervised using to make their oral
20  presentations?
21            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  I think it's too vague.
22            THE COURT:  Overruled.
23  BY THE WITNESS:
24  A.  With regard to preparation for or presentation at roll
25  call?

                                                                     929
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  BY MS. DORN:
 2  Q.  Yes.
 3  A.  They have been given materials to read, to analyze, to
 4  summarize, and then to conduct the process of the training
 5  itself.
 6            With regard to meetings or presentations with the
 7  public, similar process.  They're required to integrate
 8  information, analyze reports, statistical data, go to that
 9  meeting, conduct that meeting in such a fashion that it's
10  directed toward identifying significant problems, and then
11  beginning to address those problems with some sort of
12  strategies.
13  Q.  Commander, you testified earlier about the CAPS program.
14  Could you describe a lieutenant's role with respect to that
15  program?
16  A.  With respect to the lieutenant's role as the sector team
17  leader, he or she would be responsible for coordinating the
18  beat teams, which are comprised of a sergeant and several beat
19  officers.
20            Their objective is to stay focused on identification
21  of problems, analyzing the problems, solutions to those
22  problems, identification of resources, which would impact on
23  the problems, basically being very results oriented.
24            With regard to other duties, the lieutenant might be
25  responsible to be a watch commander or a watch operations

                                                                     930
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  lieutenant and, therefore, assume the duties formerly performed
 2  by captains.
 3  Q.  Now, how many police lieutenants are there in the patrol
 4  division of the Chicago Police Department?
 5  A.  It's an approximate -- it would be an approximation,
 6  approximately 245, 250.
 7  Q.  And can you tell me how many -- approximately how many
 8  police officers there are in the patrol division?
 9  A.  Oh, approximately 8500 to 9,000,
10  Q.  Commander DeLopez, based on your experience as lieutenant
11  and as a district commander, in your opinion is the job of
12  lieutenant an important position within the Chicago Police
13  Department?
14            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  Mr. DeLopez has not been
15  designated as an expert by the defendants in this case.
16            MS. DORN:  Your Honor --
17            THE COURT:  Is there any question about the answer to
18  that?
19            MR. FLAXMAN:  Not to this one.  But I think we're
20  going to get a whole series more, and I want to stop it now.
21  We will stipulate that being a lieutenant is important.  But
22  Mr. DeLopez should not be allowed to give opinions without
23  designation and a report.
24            MS. DORN:  Your Honor, Mr. DeLopez was a subject
25  matter expert.  He has vast experience within the Chicago

                                                                     931
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Police Department.  He has a lot to say about -- he can speak
 2  to, certainly more than any plaintiff, the importance of this
 3  position and why we're here.
 4            THE COURT:  I think he has to do that as an
 5  occurrence witness, not as an expert.  He's not been
 6  designated.  There has been no opportunity for the other side
 7  to regard him as an expert.  I'll take a lot of what he says,
 8  obviously, based on his experience.  And we have that gray area
 9  of lay witnesses or nonexperts giving opinions about what they
10  do.
11            But I think Mr. Flaxman has a point.  We're not going
12  to get too far into opinion testimony with this witness.  He
13  was a subject matter expert.  So he could certainly testify as
14  to what he did as a subject matter expert, which of course
15  allows him to testify about the application of his opinions and
16  his experience to that task.  But I think that's about where it
17  ends.
18  BY MS. DORN:
19  Q.  Commander DeLopez, in your career as a police officer, have
20  you had a role in the development of promotional exams?
21  A.  Yes, I have.
22  Q.  And what exams have you helped to develop?
23  A.  I've been involved with the 1993 sergeants exam and the
24  1994 lieutenants exam.
25  Q.  Let's focus on the 1994 lieutenants exam.  What was your

                                                                     932
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  role in the development of that exam?
 2  A.  I was designated as a subject matter expert to review
 3  materials, including the referenced reading list, and the test
 4  question items on the written test and the in-basket exam.
 5  Q.  All right.  Did you work with Barrett & Associates as a
 6  subject matter expert?
 7  A.  Yes, I did.
 8  Q.  First of all, can you tell me where did you do your work as
 9  a subject matter expert?
10  A.  We did that work in Akron, Ohio.
11  Q.  And how many times did you go to Akron, Ohio?
12  A.  Twice.
13  Q.  Where did you go in Akron, Ohio?
14  A.  We went to the offices of Barrett & Associates.
15  Q.  On those two occasions that you went to Akron, Ohio, how
16  long did you stay?
17  A.  Each period requires a stay of several days.  I don't
18  recall exactly how many days.
19  Q.  Who else from the Chicago Police Department was involved in
20  the review process as a subject matter expert, if anyone?
21  A.  That was former Deputy Chief John Cadogan, at the time
22  General Counsel John Klein, and Deputy Chief William Shaw.
23  Q.  Now, you testified that you reviewed the testing materials
24  prepared by Barrett & Associates?
25  A.  Some of them, yes.

                                                                     933
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  Some of them.
 2            What components of the exam did you review?
 3  A.  The written test items and the in-basket.
 4  Q.  Focusing on the written job knowledge test and the
 5  in-basket simulation, what did you review those testing devices
 6  for specifically?
 7  A.  We reviewed those for relevancy to the position of a
 8  lieutenant.  We also reviewed those to ensure that they were
 9  properly referenced to the source materials that the candidates
10  were requested to review and have knowledge of.
11  Q.  Was there any review for accuracy?
12  A.  Yes, also for accuracy.
13            And for a proper understandable language which should
14  be language in the context of the directives that they were
15  referencing to.
16  Q.  Thank you.
17            When you were reviewing the in-basket and written job
18  knowledge components of the exam, did you have access to any
19  reading list for the exam?
20  A.  I'm sorry.  I couldn't hear what you said.
21  Q.  I'm sorry.  I'll repeat it.
22            When you were reviewing the in-basket and the written
23  job knowledge examination that Barrett & Associates was
24  preparing, did you have access to any reading list?
25  A.  Yes, we did.

                                                                     934
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  And how did you use the reading list in conducting your
 2  review?
 3  A.  Used it as a reference to ensure that the materials listed
 4  on that reading list were both current at the time, and also
 5  that the questions were taken from materials that were listed
 6  on that reading list.
 7  Q.  I'm now presenting you with what's marked as Defendant's
 8  Exhibit 20.  Commander DeLopez, this is Defendant's Exhibit 20,
 9  which was previously introduced.  Do you recognize this
10  document?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  And what is that?
13  A.  It appears to be the recommended reading list for the
14  Chicago police lieutenants promotional test dated September 12,
15  1994.
16  Q.  And is that part one of the documents that you reviewed as
17  a subject matter expert?
18  A.  Yes.
19  Q.  And in determining whether or not the test materials were
20  appropriate?
21            MR. FLAXMAN:  Object to leading.
22            THE COURT:  I'll let her lead for this purpose.
23  BY THE WITNESS:
24  A.  Yes, correct.
25  BY MS. DORN:

                                                                     935
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  What's the date on the reading list?
 2  A.  September 12th, 1994.
 3  Q.  Now, were your trips to Akron, Ohio after September 12th,
 4  1994?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  And do you recall when those trips occurred?
 7  A.  Specific dates, no.  October was the month.  October '94.
 8  Q.  Okay.  And what was your understanding of the purpose of
 9  the source material on the reading list with respect to the
10  lieutenants exam?
11  A.  It was material that the candidates for the position of
12  lieutenant were requested to review and have knowledge of in
13  order to be able to perform on the stated exam.
14  Q.  And was it your understanding that the candidates would be
15  tested on the materials?
16            MR. FLAXMAN:  Object to the leading, Judge.
17            THE COURT:  Sustained.
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.
19  BY MS. DORN:
20  Q.  Did you have any other understanding with respect to the
21  purpose of the source materials?
22  A.  Yes.  This is material that the candidates were going to be
23  tested on to determine their performance on the various phases
24  of the exam process.
25  Q.  Commander DeLopez, as a subject matter expert, what

                                                                     936
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  opinion, if any, did you form as to whether the items on the
 2  source list were important for the performance of the job of
 3  lieutenant?
 4            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  He could be asked if he
 5  formed an opinion back then, before he is asked what opinion he
 6  did form and whether forming an opinion was part of his job as
 7  a subject matter expert.
 8            THE COURT:  I think that that's a good point.  You
 9  should define his area of responsibility as a subject matter
10  expert before you get into any of this.
11            MS. DORN:  Okay.
12  BY MS. DORN:
13  Q.  Commander DeLopez, did you form an opinion as to whether
14  the items on the source list were important for the performance
15  of the job of lieutenant?
16  A.  Yes.
17  Q.  And what opinion did you perform?
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  Still we haven't
19  established that that was part of his job as the subject matter
20  expert.
21            THE COURT:  Was it part of your job as a subject
22  matter expert?
23            THE WITNESS:  Your Honor, one of the responsibilities
24  we had was to review this material to ensure prior to actually
25  formulating the exam that these were relevant documents and

                                                                     937
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  materials, yes.
 2            THE COURT:  I thought he said that before, actually.
 3            MR. FLAXMAN:  I --
 4            THE COURT:  Okay.  Go ahead.
 5            MR. FLAXMAN:  If he said it before, it's been asked
 6  and answered.  But I --
 7            THE COURT:  You can't have it both ways, Mr. Flaxman.
 8  All right.  I think the proper foundation has been laid for the
 9  question.
10            Go ahead.  Ask the question again now.
11  BY MS. DORN:
12  Q.  And as a subject matter expert reviewing the test materials
13  prepared by Barrett & Associates, what determinations, if any,
14  did you make regarding whether the test materials related to
15  the materials on the source material reading list?
16            MR. FLAXMAN:  That's been asked and answered.  I
17  think he said that each question --
18            THE COURT:  All right.  Let him answer it again.
19            MR. FLAXMAN:  All right.
20  BY THE WITNESS:
21  A.  Could you restate that one more time, please.
22  BY MS. DORN:
23  Q.  As a subject matter expert reviewing the test materials
24  prepared by Barrett & Associates, what determinations, if any,
25  did you make as to whether the test materials related to the

                                                                     938
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  materials contained on the source material reading list?
 2  A.  That they did.
 3  Q.  And how did you determine this?
 4  A.  By referencing the source reading list and reviewing the
 5  exam questions.
 6  Q.  With respect to the written job knowledge test, can you
 7  describe what your review process was like for those exam
 8  materials?
 9  A.  Yes.
10            We were teamed up with employees of Barrett &
11  Associates and reviewed both the stem and the alternatives that
12  had been prepared from the source documents.  Sometimes if
13  there was any discussion necessary -- two of us would be
14  working in one room, two of the subject matter experts.  Two
15  would be working in another room.  And we would each be working
16  with one of the Barrett associates.
17            We would then make recommendations for either
18  modification to either the stem or to the alternatives.  We
19  would in some cases make recommendations for corrections or
20  deletions and an appropriateness to the particular order that
21  was referenced or department directive or such cite.
22  Q.  All right.  And how many of the -- do you know how many
23  written items you reviewed?
24  A.  No.  There were a lot, I know that.
25  Q.  Was it more than 150?

                                                                     939
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  Yes.
 2  Q.  What determination -- no.  Strike that.
 3            Did you evaluate whether the test questions were
 4  appropriate testing material for candidates for the position of
 5  lieutenant?
 6            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  This seems like an
 7  industrial psychologist question.
 8            THE COURT:  Well --
 9            MR. FLAXMAN:  He's --
10            MS. DORN:  He's a former lieutenant.
11            THE COURT:  -- within the context of his subject
12  matter expert role.
13            MR. FLAXMAN:  Well, let me object.  What does
14  "appropriate" mean?  Appropriate for a test, appropriate --
15  that's my objection to the question.
16            THE COURT:  Overruled.
17  BY THE WITNESS:
18  A.  Could I have that once again, please.
19  BY MS. DORN:
20  Q.  Did you evaluate whether the test questions were
21  appropriate testing materials for the candidates of the
22  position of lieutenant in the CPD?
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  And what determination did you make after making that
25  evaluation?

                                                                     940
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  I felt that they were appropriate for the position of a
 2  lieutenant.
 3  Q.  Now, I believe that you testified as to how you went about
 4  reviewing the written test questions.  Did you also evaluate
 5  the questions on different levels?
 6  A.  I'm not sure I understand the question.
 7  Q.  With respect to the written exam questions, was there any
 8  review -- did you review the questions for relevance?
 9            MR. FLAXMAN:  Asked and answered.
10            THE COURT:  I think he already stated that he has.
11  BY MS. DORN:
12  Q.  What did you mean when you said that you reviewed the
13  questions for relevance?
14            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.
15            THE COURT:  I'm not sure what it means either.  I'll
16  let him answer.
17            Do you understand the question?
18            THE WITNESS:  Yes, I do, Your Honor.
19            THE COURT:  Okay, go ahead.
20  BY THE WITNESS:
21  A.  That they were related to the duties and responsibilities
22  with which a lieutenant might have to perform or fulfill.
23  BY MS. DORN:
24  Q.  Was there any review of the alternative answers for the
25  questions?

                                                                     941
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  Yes, there was.
 2  Q.  And what did that review entail?
 3  A.  That review entailed looking at the particular cited
 4  alternatives to ensure that there was no obviously implausible
 5  answer, number one, and to also ensure the accuracy with regard
 6  to the alternative, and to also ensure that there would not be
 7  two alternatives that could be construed as the best answer.
 8  Q.  I believe that you testified that you reviewed the stems of
 9  the questions --
10  A.  Yes.
11  Q.  -- as well?
12            And what for?
13  A.  Again, stems for grammatical correctness, for
14  identification and relevance or relation to the actual cited
15  reference from the reading list and for relation to the
16  position of a lieutenant so that it was a question that would
17  be again relevant, as I stated earlier.
18  Q.  All right.  All right.  We've talked about some in detail
19  of your review of the written test questions.
20            Based on your review of the written materials, did
21  you make any suggestions regarding the materials?
22  A.  Yes.
23  Q.  And what types of suggestions did you make?
24  A.  Well, in some cases it was a modification of either the
25  stem or the alternatives, corrections to them, recommendations

                                                                     942
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  for, I believe, deletions in some cases of questions.
 2  Q.  Do you know if your suggestions were incorporated by
 3  Barrett & Associates?
 4  A.  I believe they were.
 5  Q.  And on what are you basing your belief that Barrett &
 6  Associates incorporated your suggested changes?
 7  A.  Well, the process I described, as we worked with one of the
 8  associates from Barrett & Associates, they actually sat at a
 9  computer terminal.  And as we made recommendations for
10  modification or change, they entered all this information into
11  a data file.
12  Q.  Having reviewed the written exam items that you did review,
13  did you formulate an opinion as to whether the information
14  contained in those questions was information that a lieutenant
15  needed to know?
16            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  If this is a new opinion,
17  it's beyond his subject matter -- his occurrence witness.  If
18  it's an old opinion, it's been asked and answered.
19            MS. DORN:  I don't believe it's been asked and
20  answered.
21            THE COURT:  Well, I think it's very close to some
22  former questions.  I'll let him answer.
23            Go ahead.  Overruled.
24  BY THE WITNESS:
25  A.  Yes.

                                                                     943
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  BY MS. DORN:
 2  Q.  And what was your opinion?
 3  A.  It was related.
 4  Q.  Did you form an opinion as to whether the items covered
 5  important knowledge, skills, and abilities for a lieutenant?
 6            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  That's an industrial
 7  psychologist question.
 8            THE COURT:  You haven't laid a foundation for him to
 9  be able to answer that question.  Sustained.  I sustained your
10  objection.
11            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.
12  BY MS. DORN:
13  Q.  Commander DeLopez, you've worked as lieutenant, have you
14  not?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And you've also supervised lieutenants?
17            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection, asked and answered.
18            THE COURT:  Well, she's laying a foundation, or
19  trying to.  Overruled.
20  BY THE WITNESS:
21  A.  Yes.
22  BY MS. DORN:
23  Q.  Okay.  And in your review of the written job knowledge test
24  for the position of lieutenant, did you form an opinion as to
25  whether the items covered important knowledge, skills, and

                                                                     944
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  abilities for a lieutenant?
 2            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  Dr. Barrett has testified
 3  that to know what's important, the important KSAs, you have to
 4  do a job analysis.  You don't have to do that when you just ask
 5  somebody.
 6            THE COURT:  Well, you're using a term of art.
 7  "Knowledge, skills, and abilities" is a term of art that was
 8  used by Dr. Barrett and is used in this field.  And Mr. Flaxman
 9  is right that it's a term of art that requires some knowledge
10  and experience in applying.  And I don't think this witness has
11  been qualified to testify about that.  So I'm sustaining your
12  objection.
13  BY MS. DORN:
14  Q.  Okay.  Did you form an opinion as to whether the items
15  covered information that a lieutenant needs to know and
16  understand?
17            MR. FLAXMAN:  Object.  That's been asked and
18  answered.
19            THE COURT:  I think so.  Sustained.
20  BY MS. DORN:
21  Q.  Have you seen the written job knowledge test which was
22  actually given to the lieutenant candidates?
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  And when did you see this test?
25  A.  Oh, approximately a week and a half to two weeks ago.

                                                                     945
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  Okay.  And did you review the 150 questions on that test?
 2  A.  Yes.
 3  Q.  Did you form an opinion as to whether the materials which
 4  were on the final test tested items which a lieutenant needs to
 5  know?
 6  A.  Yes.
 7            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  That's an opinion, not from
 8  what he did as a -- in making up the test.  That's an opinion
 9  in litigation.
10            THE COURT:  Well, but he helped, he helped create
11  this test.  He played a part in it.  I'll take his opinion on
12  it.  Overruled.
13  BY MS. DORN:
14  Q.  And what was your opinion?
15  A.  That it did relate, they did relate.
16  Q.  And what was your opinion with respect to whether the test,
17  the final exam tested information which was important to the
18  job of lieutenant?
19            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  He's now being asked about
20  the industrial psychologist question, to validate -- give an
21  opinion about whether the exam is job related as valid.
22            THE COURT:  I'll take it for what it's worth,
23  Mr. Flaxman.
24  BY THE WITNESS:
25  A.  One more time, please.

                                                                     946
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  BY MS. DORN:
 2  Q.  What was your opinion as to whether the final test tested
 3  information which was important to the job of lieutenant?
 4  A.  That it did.
 5  Q.  In your role as subject matter expert for the 1994
 6  lieutenants exam, you also reviewed the in-basket exercise, is
 7  that correct?
 8  A.  Yes.
 9  Q.  And with respect to the in-basket exercise, would you
10  describe your review process as a subject matter expert for
11  that portion of the exam?
12  A.  Much the same as the process I described for the written
13  item job knowledge test.  We would again work with one of the
14  associates from Barrett.  We would review the materials.  We'd
15  make recommendations.  Those recommendations would be recorded
16  by that associate.
17            If there was some question regarding an item, whether
18  it be the stem itself, an alternative, or any other aspect of
19  the question, we would -- in some cases the two subject matter
20  experts in the room would discuss the item and make a
21  recommendation.
22  Q.  Was there any review by you to determine whether the
23  materials were complete and accurate?
24  A.  Yes.
25  Q.  Were there multiple-choice questions for the exercise which

                                                                     947
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  you reviewed?
 2  A.  Yes.
 3  Q.  And could you describe the review process for those
 4  multiple-choice questions?
 5  A.  Again, much like I have stated earlier, we would review the
 6  stem to ensure that it was related to one of the cited
 7  references that the candidates were requested to study and be
 8  aware of and have knowledge of, also for accuracy, for
 9  grammatical correctness, for language which would be
10  understandable by the candidates.
11            And the same with the stems, again, looking that
12  there might be no stem that would be too obviously implausible.
13  There wouldn't be two items that would both be the best item
14  for selection.
15  Q.  And did you also review the written materials or documents
16  in the in-basket exercise?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  What did you review those materials for?
19  A.  To determine whether or not those would be items which a
20  candidate would be expected to review, to be expected to see,
21  something that a lieutenant or a watch commander would have
22  access to or would be reviewing in the normal course of their
23  duties and responsibilities.
24  Q.  And overall did you find that those materials were similar
25  to materials and forms used by the Chicago Police Department?

                                                                     948
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  Yes.
 2  Q.  Commander DeLopez, within your packet, could you flip to
 3  Defendant's Exhibit 15.  I'll give you a moment to look at
 4  that.
 5            This was previously marked and admitted as
 6  Defendant's 15.
 7  A.  Okay.
 8  Q.  Commander DeLopez, do you recognize this document?
 9  A.  Yes, I do.
10  Q.  What is it?
11  A.  It's the Chicago police lieutenants in-basket simulation
12  exercise.
13  Q.  All right.  During the course of your review of the
14  in-basket exercise, did you assess whether the exercise was
15  similar to tasks that a lieutenant would face on the job?
16            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.
17  BY THE WITNESS:
18  A.  Yes.
19            MS. DORN:  Grounds?
20            MR. FLAXMAN:  He testified about looking at the
21  materials, looking at the questions.  Now, talking about the
22  test is making a judgment about whether the construct of the
23  simulation is dissimilar to what somebody does, which is a
24  industrial psychologist question.
25            THE COURT:  Well, but I think he was, at least in

                                                                     949
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  part, being used to give his input on that very subject.
 2  Overruled.
 3  BY MS.DORN:
 4  Q.  Okay.  I believe you said that you did form an opinion?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  All right.  What was your opinion?
 7  A.  That these are materials that we could readily expect a
 8  lieutenant to review in the course of his or her duties and to
 9  make decisions on.
10  Q.  Turning your attention to a document which is Bates stamped
11  8462, within the in-basket exercise.  Now, is this one of the
12  documents from the -- do you recognize this as being one of the
13  documents from the in-basket exercise?
14  A.  Yes.
15  Q.  And what does this document describe, Commander?
16  A.  This is a to/from/subject report to the watch commander
17  from the district commander.
18  Q.  With respect to the actual in-basket exercise itself, what
19  does this document set out?
20  A.  This document is identifying a list of tasks or
21  responsibilities which the lieutenant candidate must perform.
22            The tasks include on here to complete a weapons
23  discharge investigation, a summary punishment investigation, a
24  complaint register investigation, complete duty assignments for
25  sergeants, conduct an administrative review and perform some

                                                                     950
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  scheduling.
 2  Q.  Okay.  Commander DeLopez, do lieutenants serving in the
 3  position of watch commander actually conduct, first, weapons
 4  discharge investigations?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  Summary punishment investigations?
 7  A.  Yes.
 8  Q.  Complaint register investigations?
 9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  Do they assign counseling and other duties to sergeants?
11  A.  Yes, they do.
12  Q.  Do they conduct administrative reviews of arrest reports?
13  A.  Yes.
14  Q.  And do they review scheduling assignments for --
15  A.  Yes, they do.
16  Q.  -- police officers under them?
17            They do?
18  A.  Yes.
19  Q.  And do they also handle documents and other information
20  relating to their duties in each of these areas?
21  A.  Yes.
22            MR. FLAXMAN:  Object to the leading.
23            THE COURT:  He's already answered it.  I assume
24  that --
25            MS. DORN:  I'm trying to move this forward.

                                                                     951
                           DeLopez - direct
 1            THE COURT:  I understand.  I'll let you do it this
 2  time, but try to keep the leading questions down, please.
 3  BY MS. DORN:
 4  Q.  In your experience as lieutenant, as a lieutenant and watch
 5  commander, district commander, have you ever been involved in a
 6  weapons discharge investigation?
 7  A.  Yes.
 8  Q.  Have you ever been involved in a summary punishment
 9  investigation?
10  A.  Yes.
11  Q.  Have you ever been involved in a complaint register
12  investigation?
13  A.  Yes.
14  Q.  Have you been involved in each of the items listed on 8462?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  Now, turning to weapons discharge investigations, what role
17  does a lieutenant have with respect to those investigations?
18  A.  The lieutenant as a field lieutenant has a responsibility
19  to immediately respond to all weapons discharge incidents,
20  assume the responsibility for the proper conduct of the
21  investigation and submission of a report upon completion of
22  that investigation.
23            As the watch commander, he also or she also has the
24  responsibility for oversight of the investigation and keeps
25  that responsibility through any subsequent formal investigation

                                                                     952
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  if there were a person that was struck by the officer in the
 2  weapons discharge.
 3  Q.  Now, are documents which a lieutenant would handle in a
 4  weapons discharge investigation in the in-basket exercise?
 5  A.  I need to refer to the exercise.
 6            Yes, there are some.
 7  Q.  And could you point out some of those documents.
 8  A.  They're marked by, I believe, it's Bates stamp 8480, a
 9  to/from/subject report.  8481; 8482, a weapons discharge
10  report; and 8483, injury on duty report.
11  Q.  Okay.
12  A.  There is also a case report, 8484.
13  Q.  Turning to summary punishment investigations, what role
14  does a lieutenant have in a summary punishment investigation?
15  A.  Well, if the accused person was a subordinate sergeant of
16  the lieutenant, the lieutenant would actually conduct the
17  investigation for all the matters that a lieutenant must review
18  for proper investigation and proper procedure any complaint
19  register investigations submitted through the chain of command.
20  Q.  And what types of documents would a lieutenant handle with
21  respect to summary punishment investigations?
22  A.  Forms such as a complaint against a department member,
23  notification of allegations and charges, administrative rights
24  forms, to/from/subject reports, disciplinary history,
25  complimentary history.

                                                                     953
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  Turning your attention to document Bates stamped 8489, is
 2  this the type of document which a lieutenant might handle with
 3  respect to a summary punishment investigation?
 4  A.  Yes.  It's a summary punishment action request form.
 5  Q.  And what would the lieutenant's role be with respect to
 6  this type of document?
 7  A.  To review this for accuracy, number one, and also to
 8  approve the application of summary punishment, ensuring that it
 9  was an appropriate form of disciplinary action versus some
10  other method of resolving the matter.
11  Q.  Turning to complaint register investigations, what role
12  does a lieutenant have with respect to CR investigations?
13  A.  Repeat that, what role does he have --
14  Q.  What role does a lieutenant have with respect to complaint
15  register investigations?
16  A.  To, again, review those investigations for adherence to
17  department policy, for accuracy, to review -- to ensure that
18  they are being conducted in a timely fashion, and to give
19  advice or guidance to the supervisor conducting the
20  investigation.
21  Q.  And are documents which a lieutenant would handle in such
22  an investigation in the in-basket exercise?
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  Take a moment to look.  Looking at 8505 and 8506.
25  A.  As I stated earlier, the complaint against department

                                                                     954
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  member form, such as is in the packet here, 8505;
 2  administrative proceeding, 8506.
 3            Additional items would be items such as the complaint
 4  against the department member, notification of allegations,
 5  those types of forms.
 6  Q.  Okay.  What role does a lieutenant have with respect to
 7  duties -- making duty assignments for sergeants?
 8  A.  The lieutenant as the watch commander or watch operations
 9  lieutenant has to ensure the proper manning of the watch
10  complement.  He has to ensure that there are sufficient
11  personnel available for assignment to ensure that we are
12  capable of performing our duties and functions of providing
13  police services to our community.
14  Q.  All right.  And does a document -- does a lieutenant also
15  handle documents with respect to his or her duties in making
16  assignments for sergeants?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  What types of documents are handled in connection with
19  that?
20  A.  They would look at unit rosters, watch assignments, watch
21  complement forms.
22  Q.  With respect to reviewing arrest reports, what role does a
23  lieutenant have with respect to reviewing such reports?
24  A.  He'll review them for completion, for accuracy, for
25  probable cause for the particular charge being sought.

                                                                     955
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  And are there documents within the in-basket exercise which
 2  relate to a lieutenant's role in reviewing arrest reports?
 3  A.  Yes, there are.
 4  Q.  Could you identify some of those documents?
 5  A.  Well, again, Bates stamp 8518 is a to/from/subject report
 6  referencing arrest reports.  8519 is an arrest report.  8520 is
 7  an arrest report.  8521 is an arrest report.
 8  Q.  Are the reports that you've just looked at, are those
 9  reports similar to documents which are used by the Chicago
10  Police Department?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  Manpower scheduling, what role does a lieutenant have with
13  respect to manpower scheduling?
14  A.  The lieutenant as the watch commander has to ensure that
15  there are sufficient number of police officers to man the
16  minimal number of beats and other assignments that a district
17  is charged with according to the manpower allocation plan and,
18  again, to ensure that there is sufficient number of police
19  officers available to perform the responsibility that the
20  district has with regard to delivery of public services and
21  protection of life and property.
22  Q.  What types of documents are involved with respect to
23  manpower scheduling?
24  A.  Well, again, there would be a watch complement form.  There
25  would be a district or a unit roster of personnel.  In some

                                                                     956
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  cases, comp time, compensatory time would either be time due
 2  used or time due accrued, which also would have to be
 3  referenced.  Use of personal days would also go on that form.
 4  Q.  Turning your attention to documents Bates stamped 8527,
 5  8528, do those documents relate to manpower scheduling?
 6  A.  Yes.  These are to/from/subject reports identifying
 7  manpower needs.
 8  Q.  All right.  We talked about a few of the documents which
 9  were in the in-basket exercise.  In your role as a subject
10  matter expert, did you have -- did you form an opinion as to
11  whether the materials in the in-basket exercise are similar to
12  the forms, types of forms that one would -- that a lieutenant
13  would handle in the various areas the exercise covers?
14            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection, asked and answered.
15            THE COURT:  I don't think -- I think this is all
16  inclusive.  Overruled.
17  BY THE WITNESS:
18  A.  Once more, please.
19  BY MS. DORN:
20  Q.  All right.  In your role as a subject matter expert, did
21  you form an opinion as to whether the materials in the
22  in-basket exercise were similar to the types of forms that one
23  would handle in the various areas --
24  A.  Yes.
25  Q.  -- that the exercise covered?

                                                                     957
                           DeLopez - direct
 1            And what was your opinion?
 2  A.  That they were very similar.
 3  Q.  In your experience as a lieutenant or watch commander or
 4  district commander, have you observed or been involved in
 5  circumstances where one lieutenant or watch commander completes
 6  an investigation started by another?
 7  A.  Yes, that's happened on occasion.
 8  Q.  Could you provide any examples of that?
 9  A.  A situation where a watch commander would be suddenly taken
10  ill or injured and would have to be replaced by another
11  lieutenant, in cases where a particular responsibility would
12  take that watch commander away from the current unit assignment
13  and have to fulfill a responsibility somewhere else and
14  somebody else would have to fulfill his or her duties at the
15  district assigned location.
16  Q.  So what opinion did you form, if any, as to whether the
17  in-basket exercise was unrealistic in setting up a situation
18  where a lieutenant must step in to complete the work of another
19  lieutenant?
20            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.  There is no foundation that
21  that was part of his job as a subject matter expert.  If he's
22  being asked now to give an opinion about whether that -- then
23  that should have been disclosed that he's an expert.
24            THE COURT:  Overruled.
25  BY THE WITNESS:

                                                                     958
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  I formed an opinion that it was realistic, and it would be
 2  something that could be experienced by a lieutenant.
 3  BY MS. DORN:
 4  Q.  When you reviewed the in-basket materials, did you
 5  recommend any changes to the in-basket materials?
 6            MR. FLAXMAN:  Asked and answered.
 7            THE COURT:  Sustained.
 8            How much longer do you have, counsel, on direct?
 9            MS. DORN:  Actually, I can take a break now.  I don't
10  have that much longer.
11            THE COURT:  All right.  Let's take a five-minute
12  break.
13       (Recess.)
14            THE COURT:  Please be seated.
15  BY MS. DORN:
16  Q.  All right.  Commander DeLopez, let's return for a moment to
17  the written job knowledge test.
18            Now, you reviewed the questions on the written job
19  knowledge test you testified previously?
20  A.  Yes.
21  Q.  And do you think that lieutenants can look up the answers
22  to the kinds of questions that were present on the written job
23  knowledge test?
24  A.  Well, it wouldn't be practical.
25  Q.  Okay.  And why not?

                                                                     959
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  In some cases we're dealing with issues that pertain to
 2  decisions which would affect protection or violation of
 3  constitutional rights, expediency or exigent circumstances with
 4  regard to protecting life or property, proper and accurate
 5  information, on-the-scene on-the-spot decision making, critical
 6  decisions, situations like that.
 7  Q.  Okay.
 8  A.  Another comment being that if we're talking about a field
 9  assignment, the sheer volume of the material that we're talking
10  about would make it pretty difficult to carry that many
11  reference items with you in a police vehicle.
12  Q.  All right.  I'm going to give you what's previously been
13  marked Plaintiffs' Exhibit 78.  Okay.  You're on Plaintiffs'
14  Exhibit 78?
15  A.  Pardon me?
16  Q.  Are you -- I've handed you what's marked as Plaintiffs'
17  Exhibit 78.
18  A.  Yes, I have it.
19  Q.  Okay.  Now, this is question 48 from the written
20  lieutenants exam.  Can you tell --
21            THE COURT:  Give Mr. Flaxman a moment.
22  BY THE WITNESS:
23  A.  Can I have a second to read it?
24  BY MS. DORN:
25  Q.  Yes.

                                                                     960
                           DeLopez - direct
 1            THE COURT:  Are you looking for the exhibit?
 2            MR. FLAXMAN:  Yes.  I thought you said Defendant's 7
 3  and 8.
 4            THE COURT:  Plaintiffs' 78.
 5            MS. DORN:  Plaintiffs' Exhibit 78.
 6            THE COURT:  That's fine.
 7  BY THE WITNESS:
 8  A.  Okay.
 9  BY MS. DORN:
10  Q.  Can you tell us, Commander, what this question is about?
11  A.  This question refers to --
12            THE COURT:  Which question is it?
13            MS. DORN:  It is question -- it's question 48 from
14  the written exam.
15  BY THE WITNESS:
16  A.  This question sets out a set of circumstances which are
17  brought to the attention of a watch operations lieutenant with
18  regard to some unusual behavioral traits that are observed with
19  regard to one of the police officers that the watch operations
20  lieutenant is responsible for.  It makes it apparent that there
21  is a strong possibility that there may be some drug abuse
22  involved here.
23  BY MS. DORN:
24  Q.  And is the information that the question relates to
25  something that a lieutenant needs to know?

                                                                     961
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  Yes.
 2  Q.  Why is that?
 3  A.  For many reasons, one being that he or she must take some
 4  immediate and appropriate action and must be aware of what that
 5  action should be in light of the fact that we give police
 6  officers a pretty great responsibility with regard to making
 7  decisions over depriving a person of their rights or their
 8  freedom, in some cases the decision that they can make to take
 9  a life.
10            And with regard to responsibilities of watch
11  commanders, watch commanders have the responsibility to observe
12  and to make decisions on the performance of their individual
13  officers.
14  Q.  And why is C the correct answer to 48?
15  A.  Well, there is some exigency here with regard to that
16  officer appearing as quickly as possible when scheduled for a
17  mandatory physical exam.
18            Also, the mandatory physical exam is one in which the
19  officer needs to be there at the designated time in order to
20  not allow that officer to circumvent the process.  Timeliness
21  is important.  The proper notification is important if we're
22  going to ensure that.
23  Q.  And why is A not the correct answer to 48?
24  A.  Well, the watch commander, watch operations lieutenant
25  wouldn't be scheduling.

                                                                     962
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  All right.  Turning your attention to Plaintiffs' Exhibit
 2  80.
 3  A.  Okay.
 4  Q.  Which is question number 53 from the written exam.
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  Would you take a moment to read that question.
 7       (Pause.)
 8  BY THE WITNESS:
 9  A.  Okay.
10  BY MS. DORN:
11  Q.  What is question 53 testing on?
12  A.  Knowledge of the proper procedure to follow in the event
13  that someone is exposed to OC or oleoresin Capsicum spray.
14  Q.  Is this something that a lieutenant needs to know?
15  A.  Yes, it is.
16  Q.  Why is that?
17  A.  A lieutenant is responsible for responding to weapons
18  discharge incidents.  Weapons discharge incidents will include
19  discharge of OC spray.
20            He or she is also responsible for the care and
21  treatment of persons coming into the custody of the Chicago
22  Police Department, proper care.
23  Q.  Commander, why is answer A the correct answer to 53?
24  A.  Well, it's one remedy for exposure to OC that is
25  recommended by manufacturers of OC spray.  Water is something

                                                                     963
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  that is readily available throughout the city to all police
 2  officers.  And in some cases, even that might not be completely
 3  necessary, since the effects of OC, according to manufacturers,
 4  can be generally dissipated or diminished within 30 minutes.
 5  Q.  All right.  And why is B incorrect?
 6  A.  Well, it states that you would face the arrestee away from
 7  the wind.  And one of the recommended procedures is to face the
 8  arrestee into the wind.
 9  Q.  Finally, why is C an incorrect answer to 53?
10  A.  We wouldn't normally immediately transport an arrestee to a
11  medical facility unless that person was demonstrating some
12  adverse effects of exposure.  This would be a case where
13  someone hasn't responded to any of the other prior recommended
14  measures for decontamination.
15  Q.  Let's turn to Plaintiffs' Exhibit 84, which is question 64
16  from the written exam.  Please take a moment to read that
17  question.
18       (Pause.)
19  BY THE WITNESS:
20  A.  Okay.
21  BY MS. DORN:
22  Q.  All right.  What is this question testing?
23  A.  This is a licensing question that deals with licensing of
24  charitable games.
25  Q.  And does it relate to a departmental order?

                                                                     964
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  A.  It tests knowledge with regard to a department special
 2  order.
 3  Q.  Is this -- is the material that's covered in question 64
 4  something that a lieutenant needs to know about?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  And why is that?
 7  A.  Well, lieutenants have an obligation to make investigations
 8  of all occurrences on licensed premises.  In addition to that,
 9  as I stated earlier, our new philosophy requires that there is
10  more interaction with the public.  It's not unlikely that a
11  lieutenant or another supervisor would be queried by a citizen
12  or someone with regard to information about laws or procedures
13  that they would need to know.  And they have a right to expect
14  a pretty quick response to their inquiries.
15  Q.  Now, turning to Plaintiffs' Exhibit 88, this is question 66
16  from the written exam.  Please take a moment to review that
17  question.
18       (Pause.)
19  BY THE WITNESS:
20  A.  Okay.
21  BY MS. DORN:
22  Q.  All right.  What is this question testing on, Commander?
23  A.  This tests knowledge with regard to landlord/tenant
24  relations and tests knowledge regarding department special
25  orders and also laws.

                                                                     965
                           DeLopez - direct
 1  Q.  Okay.  Now, is this something that a lieutenant needs to
 2  know about?
 3  A.  Yes.
 4  Q.  And why is that?
 5  A.  Well, this is not an uncommon situation.  A lieutenant or
 6  any other supervisor or police officer quite frequently gets
 7  called to a scene in landlord/tenant disputes, questions with
 8  regard to right of occupancy, situations like that.
 9  Q.  And should a lieutenant be able to answer this question
10  without looking it up?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  And why is that?
13  A.  To ensure that property rights are protected, to ensure
14  that there is due process, to ensure that persons are not
15  either improperly prohibited from occupying a premise or unduly
16  allowed to occupy a premise and thus depriving the owner or the
17  other person that has a right to that premise from using it.
18  Q.  And finally, if you turn to Plaintiffs' Exhibit 100, which
19  is question 122.
20            THE COURT:  Excuse me, excuse me, Commander.  Look at
21  number E again.
22            Is there a typo in that or is that the way this
23  sentence was actually written on the test?
24            THE WITNESS:  With regard to "if the unit is absent
25  for 32 days"?

                                                                     966
                           DeLopez - direct
 1            THE COURT:  How is a unit absent?
 2            THE WITNESS:  I believe it probably -- I don't recall
 3  how it was actually originally written or stated.  I see what
 4  you're referring to, Your Honor.  Perhaps the --
 5            THE COURT:  It should say --
 6            THE WITNESS:  -- occupant of the unit.
 7            MR. FLAXMAN:  Judge, I think while they're
 8  clarifying, if they'll look at Bates 8385, which is the actual
 9  test, you'll see that it has that language for E, "if the unit
10  is absent for 32 days."
11            THE COURT:  All right.  Thank you.
12            Go ahead to your next one.
13  BY MS. DORN:
14  Q.  Okay.  Plaintiffs' Exhibit 100.  That is test question
15  number 122?
16  A.  Yes.
17  Q.  What is this question testing on, Commander?
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  Let me object that he's not competent
19  to say what something is testing about.
20  BY MS. DORN:
21  Q.  What is this question about?
22  A.  It makes reference to Illinois law.
23  Q.  Okay.  And what aspect of Illinois law?
24  A.  The Illinois Compiled Statutes.
25  Q.  And is this something that a lieutenant needs to know

                                                                     967
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  about?
 2  A.  Yes.
 3  Q.  And why is that?
 4  A.  Again, to protect the rights of individuals who may come
 5  into police custody, to ensure proper procedures are followed
 6  with regard to department directives or with regard to laws of
 7  Illinois, and to ensure due process in the event that there is
 8  a need for arrest or prosecution of an individual.
 9  Q.  Okay.
10            MS. DORN:  I have nothing further.
11            MR. FLAXMAN:  Judge, with the Court's permission,
12  Mr. Futterman, who was ill, is doing cross-examination.
13            THE COURT:  That's fine.
14            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.
15                        CROSS-EXAMINATION
16  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
17  Q.  Good morning, Mr. DeLopez.  My name is Craig Futterman.
18  I'm one of the plaintiffs' counsel.
19  A.  Good morning.
20  Q.  As a commander of the police, you're familiar with the D-2
21  promotional process, is that right?
22  A.  The promotional process, the written promotion process?
23  Q.  The D-2, the D-2 promotional process for promotion to the
24  rank of D-2?
25  A.  Yes.

                                                                     968
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  And D-2 is the rank of detective or youth officer?
 2  A.  Detective, youth officer or gang, gang investigator.
 3  Q.  Now, some police officers are promoted to the D-2 rank off
 4  of a test, is that right?
 5            MS. DORN:  Objection, Your Honor.  I'm going to
 6  object on the grounds that it's beyond the scope and also it's
 7  not relevant to the matters at issue in this lawsuit.
 8            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Your Honor, I admit that it is beyond
 9  the scope, but as we are -- rather than calling him back or
10  we've been kind of going out of order anyways.
11            THE COURT:  Well, I'll let you go beyond the scope.
12  But what about the other part of the objection?
13            MR. FUTTERMAN:  The next couple questions will show
14  why -- we'll show why it's relevant.
15            THE COURT:  All right.  Go ahead.
16            Do you want to ask it again?
17            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Sure.
18  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
19  Q.  Some police officers are promoted to the D-2 rank off of a
20  test, is that right, a written test?
21  A.  Yes.
22  Q.  And 20 percent of police officers that are promoted to the
23  D-2 rank are promoted by a process called merit selection?
24  A.  Well, some, some portion are.  I'm not sure of the exact
25  percentage, but some portion are promoted by merit, yes.

                                                                     969
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  And as the commander for the Chicago Police Department,
 2  have you been involved in the D-2 merit promotions process?
 3  A.  Yes, I have.
 4  Q.  And you've recommended candidates, police officers for
 5  promotion in that process?
 6  A.  Yes.
 7  Q.  When you recommended candidates for promotion, you didn't
 8  recommend them because they were friends of yours, right?
 9  A.  No.
10  Q.  And you didn't recommend them because you liked that police
11  officer better than another police officer?
12  A.  Absolutely not.
13  Q.  How did you decide how to recommend candidates to be
14  promoted to D-2 rank?
15            MS. DORN:  I'm going to continue to object, Your
16  Honor, on the grounds of relevance.  Now he's gone forward with
17  several questions on D-2 promotions and he hasn't established
18  how it's relevant.
19            THE COURT:  Overruled.
20            THE WITNESS:  If I could, Your Honor, I need to ask a
21  question for clarification.
22  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
23  Q.  Sure.
24  A.  Because I fulfilled two functions with the D-2 promotion.
25  Q.  Sure.

                                                                     970
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  One as a recommender and one as a member of the academic
 2  selection boards.  I just need to know which one you're asking
 3  about.
 4  Q.  First, let's start with as a recommender?
 5  A.  Okay.
 6  Q.  Go ahead.
 7  A.  As a recommender, what I would do is I would evaluate
 8  personnel with regard to the performance in the particular job
 9  that they were doing at the time as a police officer.  I would
10  look at their medical history.  I would look at their awards.
11  I would look at their performance ratings.  I would look at the
12  time in grade and then make a determination based upon that
13  that they may or may not be a suitable candidate for
14  recommendation.
15  Q.  And how about on the other end of that, you said the
16  academic --
17  A.  Academic selection board.
18  Q.  Yes.
19            Then how would you make that determination?
20  A.  Well, as a member of the academic selection board, one of
21  the responsibilities of that board was to review these
22  recommendations, evaluating them based upon some established
23  criteria, putting those people into categories and then
24  submitting those categories to the superintendent of police for
25  selection.

                                                                     971
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  Do you believe -- excuse me.
 2            So do you believe there are fair ways to select
 3  police officers for promotion, or do you believe that this
 4  merit promotions processes is a fair way to select police
 5  officers for promotion?
 6  A.  Well, I feel very strongly that the merit selection process
 7  is a good process, and it's fair, yes.
 8  Q.  Now, you've had an opportunity also as a commander to
 9  observe and evaluate officers who have been promoted to the D-2
10  rank, is that right?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  In your, in your experience, as a general matter -- or let
13  me back up.
14            D-2 promotions increase the racial representation of
15  Latinos at the D-2 rank, is that correct, the merit promotion
16  process?
17  A.  Well --
18            MS. DORN:  Objection, foundation.
19            THE COURT:  Lay a foundation for that.
20  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
21  Q.  Are you aware, are you aware of, are you aware of -- the
22  last time, the last time merit promotions at the D-2 rank were
23  made, that was in '93, is that right, 1993?
24  A.  I don't honestly recall the last time.  I was at the
25  training academy at the time, so it had to be between '92 and

                                                                     972
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  '95.
 2  Q.  And you said both you've -- and in your role on the
 3  academic review board?
 4  A.  Academic selection board.
 5  Q.  Academic selection board, you've had an opportunity to see
 6  which officers got -- actually got promoted to the D-2 rank, is
 7  that right?
 8  A.  Well, what I said was that we made recommendations to the
 9  superintendent.  We categorized people.  And based upon those
10  categories, the superintendent then selected people from the
11  final group.
12  Q.  Are you aware of who got promoted as a result, as a result
13  of this process?
14  A.  I was at the time, yes, from reviewing a promotional list.
15  Q.  Based on, based on your memory, did this process increase
16  Latino representation at the D-2 rank?
17  A.  I'm not sure it increased overall representation.  I do
18  know that we were cognizant of the fact that some people
19  recommended more minorities and females and were nonminorities.
20            Again, I don't recall the final selection that the
21  superintendent made based on categories, so I really couldn't
22  answer that question emphatically.
23  Q.  Do you remember -- do you recall whether or not the D-2
24  merit selection process increased the number of
25  African-Americans at the D-2 rank?

                                                                     973
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Again, I'd have to give you the same answer or the same
 2  response I just gave.  You know, I don't recall what the
 3  superintendent's final selection of individuals by category
 4  was.
 5            But I do know that there was a certain number of
 6  people that were recommended that were recognized as being part
 7  of those different categories of classes of people.
 8  Q.  So certainly African-Americans got promoted as a result of
 9  this process?
10  A.  Some did certainly.
11  Q.  And Latino officers got promoted as a result of this
12  process?
13  A.  Some -- I believe some did, yes.
14  Q.  Now, as you just stated earlier, you evaluated detectives
15  in your role as commander.  You've had an opportunity to see
16  how these detectives who were promoted performed on the job?
17            MS. DORN:  Objection, form.
18            MR. FUTTERMAN:  I'll rephrase.
19  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
20  Q.  Have you had the opportunity to observe how people who were
21  promoted to D-2 have performed on the job?
22  A.  Yes.
23  Q.  And as a general matter, is it your opinion that the Latino
24  officers who were promoted as a result of the merit selection
25  process performed on the job any worse than the white officers

                                                                     974
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  promoted off the test?
 2            THE WITNESS:  Well, again, if I could, Your Honor, if
 3  I may qualify my answer?
 4            THE COURT:  Go ahead.
 5  BY THE WITNESS:
 6  A.  I didn't have any direct supervision of these officers.  My
 7  contact was with their provision of ancillary services to me as
 8  a district commander.  In that context, I found no basic
 9  difference in performance.
10  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
11  Q.  And the same question as a general matter with regard to
12  the African-American officers who were promoted to the D-2 rank
13  by merit selection.  In your experience, have you found them to
14  perform any worse than the white officers who were promoted off
15  the test?
16  A.  Again, with the same qualification, no.
17  Q.  And when you say that qualification, one of your roles was
18  deputy chief in one of the youth divisions, is that right?
19  A.  I was a commanding officer of a youth area.
20  Q.  Okay.  And the youth area, these were -- this was an area
21  where youth officers worked?
22  A.  Correct.
23  Q.  You had an opportunity to observe how youth officers
24  worked?
25  A.  Correct.

                                                                     975
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  Now, Commander, would you agree with former Superintendent
 2  Rodriguez's statement that Latino Chicago police officers are
 3  just as well qualified to be promoted as white officers?
 4            MS. DORN:  Objection.  I would think foundation.  We
 5  don't have --
 6            THE COURT:  Pretty broad question.
 7            MR. FUTTERMAN:  I'll narrow, I'll narrow it down.
 8  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
 9  Q.  Would you agree with Superintendent Rodriguez's statement
10  that it's important for the Chicago Police Department to be
11  representative of the racial composition of the community to
12  which it polices?
13  A.  Yes.
14            MS. DORN:  Objection.  Statement not in the record.
15            THE COURT:  Assumes a fact not in evidence.
16            MR. FUTTERMAN:  It's a stipulated deposition that's
17  going to be introduced into evidence.
18            MS. DORN:  Can he cite the deposition transcript, if
19  that's true?
20            THE COURT:  Let's get real here.  I kind of remember
21  Superintendent Rodriguez's testimony from the preliminary
22  injunction hearing, and I think he may have testified to this
23  very thing.
24            MR. FLAXMAN:  He did not testify.  We had a
25  deposition that we may or may not have introduced at the

                                                                     976
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  preliminary injunction.
 2            THE COURT:  He testified.  I remember it.
 3            MR. FLAXMAN:  Okay.
 4            THE COURT:  You guys weren't there, over here to my
 5  left.  But you were there, Mr. Flaxman.
 6            MR. HOLZHAUER:  I've read his testimony, Your Honor.
 7            THE COURT:  Mr. Futterman wasn't there.  I think we
 8  went into this.  I think I remarked on it in my opinion in
 9  fact.
10            But anyway, is there any real doubt about this?  Is
11  anybody denying any of these facts or are we just playing
12  evidence games here?
13            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Can I hear the question again?
14  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
15  Q.  I asked if you would agree with Superintendent Rodriguez's
16  statement that it's important for the Chicago Police Department
17  to be representative of the racial composition of the community
18  to which it polices?
19            MS. DORN:  No objection.
20            THE COURT:  Okay.  You'll stipulate to that
21  proposition?
22            MS. DORN:  Yes.
23  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
24  Q.  Do you agree that that's important?
25  A.  Yes, I do.

                                                                     977
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  And do you also agree with Superintendent Rodriguez's
 2  statement that this racial representation is important at all
 3  levels in the Chicago Police Department?
 4  A.  Very much so.
 5  Q.  Because it helps make the Chicago Police Department a more
 6  effective police department in policing the community?
 7  A.  More effective, more responsive.
 8  Q.  So you would say that it's important for the racial
 9  composition of Chicago police lieutenants to be representative
10  of the racial composition of the Chicago police sergeants from
11  which they're selected, is that right?
12  A.  Yes, I agree.
13  Q.  And the same thing with Chicago police sergeants, they
14  should be representative of the racial composition of patrol
15  officers from which they are selected?
16  A.  I would go beyond that.  I'd state that reflective of the
17  population that they serve also.
18  Q.  You anticipated my next question.
19            Now, you don't have any reason to believe that Latino
20  Chicago police sergeants as a general matter are any less
21  qualified than white police sergeants to be Chicago police
22  lieutenants, do you?
23  A.  No.
24  Q.  And would you also agree that there is no reason to believe
25  that African-American police sergeants are any less qualified

                                                                     978
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  than white police sergeants to be Chicago police lieutenants as
 2  a general matter?
 3  A.  No.
 4  Q.  Well, do you believe that the Hispanic or the Latino
 5  Chicago police sergeants who took the 1994 exam didn't study as
 6  hard as the white police sergeants?
 7            MS. DORN:  Objection.
 8            THE COURT:  Sustained.
 9            MS. DORN:  Foundation.
10            THE COURT:  Sustained.
11  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
12  Q.  When were you promoted to commander, Mr. DeLopez?
13  A.  1985.
14  Q.  You've been in various assignments as a commander, is that
15  right?
16  A.  That's correct.
17  Q.  You consider yourself a competent commander, right?
18  A.  I'm sorry, I didn't hear --
19  Q.  You're a competent commander?
20  A.  Competent?
21  Q.  Sure.
22  A.  I would like to think so, yes.
23  Q.  Effective?
24  A.  Yes.
25  Q.  Now, you didn't take any written test, written multiple

                                                                     979
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  choice test in order to be promoted to commander, did you?
 2  A.  No.
 3  Q.  You didn't take an in-basket test in order to be promoted
 4  to commander, did you?
 5  A.  No, I didn't.
 6  Q.  And you certainly didn't take an oral skills test in order
 7  to be promoted --
 8  A.  No.
 9  Q.  -- to commander?
10            How were you promoted?
11  A.  I was selected based upon the decision of the current -- at
12  that time the current superintendent and the mayor.
13  Q.  I'm sorry?
14  A.  It was -- I was selected by the superintendent and the
15  mayor at their discretion to serve in what we call an exempt
16  capacity.
17  Q.  Do you know the factors they looked at in deciding who to
18  promote to commander?
19  A.  No, I don't.
20  Q.  Do you know whether or not it was based upon your
21  performance on the job?
22            MS. DORN:  Objection, asked and answered.  He already
23  said he didn't know what factors were observed.
24            THE COURT:  It's cross-examination.  Overruled.
25  BY THE WITNESS:

                                                                     980
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  I'm really not sure.
 2  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
 3  Q.  Currently you're commander of the 23rd District, is that
 4  right?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  And you have an office in the 23rd District then?
 7  A.  Yes, I do.
 8  Q.  In your office you have a copy of the general orders?
 9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  You also have a copy of the special orders?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  You have a copy of the Chicago municipal code?
13  A.  Yes, I do.
14  Q.  And you have a copy of the Illinois criminal statutes?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  You have a desk in your office, too?
17  A.  Yes, I do.
18  Q.  Do you do your paperwork at your desk?
19  A.  Most of the time.
20  Q.  You don't do it on the floor, do you?
21  A.  No.
22  Q.  I wasn't here, but did you state on direct that you were
23  commander of the training division between 1992 and '95?
24  A.  Yes, I did.
25  Q.  And part of your responsibility as the commander of the

                                                                     981
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  training division was to train police recruits?
 2  A.  Yes, it was.
 3  Q.  And that program in which you trained those recruits is
 4  called basic training, right?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  And it lasts about six months or 24 weeks?
 7  A.  Correct.
 8  Q.  And the goal of your -- your goal then is to teach Chicago
 9  police recruits what they need to know in order to become
10  police officers, is that right?
11  A.  Well, it was -- my responsibility was to build a foundation
12  and prepare police officers to perform the function of a police
13  officer during my tenure under the new context of policing in
14  Chicago, which was community policing, still addressing all the
15  needs of traditional policing.
16  Q.  Part of basic training is you teach the general orders, is
17  that right?
18  A.  We did, yes.
19  Q.  And you teach the special orders?
20  A.  Yes, we did.
21  Q.  Do you teach the municipal code?
22  A.  Yes, we did.
23  Q.  And you teach the Illinois criminal statutes, the elements
24  of crime?
25  A.  Yes.

                                                                     982
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  During training, you test, you test officers -- or excuse
 2  me, you test recruits as they go along?
 3  A.  Yes.
 4  Q.  And at the end there is a final exam?
 5  A.  Correct.  Actually, there are two final exams.
 6  Q.  There are two final exams.  One by the academy and one by
 7  the State of Illinois?
 8  A.  Correct.
 9  Q.  Let's talk about the final exam by the academy.  That final
10  exam is pass/fail, is that right?
11            MS. DORN:  Objection.  Your Honor, I've listened to a
12  lot.  This is not relevant to the matters at issue in this
13  lawsuit.  He's talking about the police officers' training
14  academy.  He hasn't tied it into matters at issue here.
15            THE COURT:  Overruled.
16  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
17  Q.  It's a pass/fail exam?
18  A.  The police officer final exam, no.  It's a numerically
19  graded exam, percentage wise.  There is a cutoff score for
20  that.
21  Q.  There is a minimum cutoff score and if recruits score above
22  that score --
23  A.  They pass.  Ones below it fail.
24  Q.  Correct.
25            You don't rank order the top 100 candidates and say

                                                                     983
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  only those top 100 can become officers, is that right?
 2  A.  No.
 3  Q.  You have -- you've determined the level of knowledge under
 4  which -- that police officers must have, a minimal requirement
 5  that police officers must have, and that's a passing score, is
 6  that right?
 7  A.  Correct.
 8  Q.  And you said you also must pass the State of Illinois test?
 9  A.  Correct.
10  Q.  That's also a pass/fail test?
11  A.  According to the definition that you used earlier, yes.
12  Q.  It's not a rank order test?
13  A.  No.
14  Q.  In order to become a Chicago police officer, you have to
15  pass the exams, both exams, is that right?
16  A.  Correct.
17  Q.  And once you're a Chicago police officer, there is no
18  ongoing testing about the general orders, there is no periodic
19  test, is there?
20  A.  Well, subsequent to academy graduation, there is a
21  probationary period that the police officers do serve prior to
22  actually being certified as a police officer.  So they're still
23  on probationary status.
24  Q.  Are they given another written test?
25  A.  No.  It's job performance and integration of academy

                                                                     984
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  training into the actual performance for ten weeks.  They are
 2  graded.  They're graded three times by a patrol specialist --
 3  four times by a patrol specialist.
 4  Q.  They're graded based on the observations of their
 5  performance on the job?
 6  A.  Correct.
 7  Q.  Not another written multiple choice test?
 8  A.  Not a written test, no.
 9  Q.  And you believe that you can fairly grade people based on
10  their performance on the job to see whether or not they know
11  what they need to know to be a Chicago police officer?
12  A.  For that particular phase of their evaluation, yes.
13  Q.  Now, also as the commander of the training division between
14  '92 and '95, you were responsible for the lieutenants' training
15  program for the Chicago Police Department?
16  A.  Yes.
17  Q.  Okay.  In that program you trained newly-promoted Chicago
18  police lieutenants before they begin actually working in the
19  field as lieutenants?
20  A.  Yes, we did.
21  Q.  And the purpose is to teach those new lieutenants what's
22  important for Chicago police lieutenants to know, is that
23  correct?
24  A.  Well, not entirely.
25  Q.  Well, you know, let me show you what's been marked

                                                                     985
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Plaintiffs' Exhibit 144, which is in evidence.
 2            Now, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 144, that's a copy of the
 3  preservice lieutenants' management training program curriculum,
 4  is that right?
 5  A.  Correct.
 6  Q.  Okay.  And right at the top on Bates stamp page 10431,
 7  there is -- where it says "intent," the intent of the program,
 8  right?
 9  A.  Well, this is --
10            MS. DORN:  Your Honor, objection.  Your Honor,
11  foundation.  Looking at the date of the copy of this exhibit,
12  it's February '97.  This is outside of the time period
13  Commander DeLopez was in the area.
14  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
15  Q.  Commander DeLopez, can you tell from this whether this is a
16  copy of the most -- of the current curriculum for lieutenants'
17  training program.
18            THE COURT:  Is this in evidence?
19            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Yes.
20            THE COURT:  This is in evidence?
21            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Yes.
22            THE COURT:  Well, you can ask him the questions.
23            If you don't know about the exhibit --
24            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Your Honor, I don't believe this is
25  in evidence.

                                                                     986
                            DeLopez - cross
 1            MR. FUTTERMAN:  There was no objection to it.
 2            MR. HOLZHAUER:  I'm sorry.  That's correct.
 3            THE COURT:  It is in evidence.  All right.
 4            Go ahead and ask him questions.
 5            Commander, if you don't know, if you don't know about
 6  it or if you have problems with it, you'll let us know.
 7  BY THE WITNESS:
 8  A.  Could you repeat again, please.
 9  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
10  Q.  Sure.
11            This is a copy of the most current curriculum for the
12  lieutenants' training program, is that right?  It's dated
13  February 10th, 1997?
14  A.  I'm not sure.  All I can state is that it is dated 1997.  I
15  don't know if it's the most current.  I haven't seen this yet.
16  Q.  If you turn to the second page, 10432, at the bottom of
17  that page it says "dates revised."  And it indicates that it
18  was revised in October of '94 and March of '95, correct?
19  A.  Yes.
20  Q.  That's while you were there?
21  A.  Yes, I was there at that time.
22  Q.  And then it was also revised a couple more times in January
23  of '96 and February of '97?
24  A.  Correct.
25  Q.  That was after you left?

                                                                     987
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Correct.
 2  Q.  Okay.  Now, turning back to the first page, 10431, the
 3  document states that, "The intent of the training program is to
 4  equip students with the skills necessary to perform the job of
 5  lieutenant in the Chicago Police Department," is that right?
 6  A.  That's what this current document states, yes.
 7  Q.  Was that the goal when you were the commander?
 8  A.  Well, I can't speak to what the intent was on the actual --
 9  Q.  I'm not talking about --
10  A.  -- program reference page.
11  Q.  I'm sorry.  I don't mean to interrupt.
12            I'm not talking about the document.  But was that
13  your intent when you were the commander of the training
14  division, to teach, equip students with the skills necessary to
15  perform the job of lieutenant in the Chicago Police Department?
16  A.  Well, I'll speak to my time at the academy.  And my intent
17  and my staff's intent was to review the important aspects of
18  the function of a lieutenant, giving some practical application
19  of some of the knowledge they were expected to have, exposing
20  to some of the highlights.
21            And through that period you can't possibly cover all
22  the material someone needs to perform the function of a
23  lieutenant and a watch commander.  So basically it was an
24  introduction to some of the highlights, the aspects, some
25  practical application through practical exercises, exposure to

                                                                     988
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  some of the forms and procedures which had to be adhered to and
 2  followed, things like that.
 3  Q.  Now, you don't teach new lieutenants things that aren't
 4  important, do you?
 5  A.  Not from our perspective.  They're all important.
 6  Q.  Particularly when you only have three weeks, you want to
 7  teach them on a practical basis what's most important to know,
 8  is that right?
 9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  Now, if you thumb through the curriculum a little bit, you
11  can see that some portions are allotted up to -- range from up
12  to seven hours and some portions are allotted just about one
13  hour of time, is that right?
14  A.  Correct.
15  Q.  And that was also true -- do you remember if that was also
16  true while you were the commander of the training division?
17  A.  Yes.  There were varying hours.  I can't see that each of
18  these topics was the same length of time, but there were
19  varying hours of presentation.
20  Q.  I'd like you to turn to page 10436 of this document.  Tell
21  me when you are there.
22  A.  I'm there.
23  Q.  On 10436, for example, the second thing listed is city
24  license investigations, and it says that it devotes one hour to
25  that, is that right?

                                                                     989
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Correct.
 2  Q.  And just below it, basic management principles, seven
 3  hours?
 4  A.  Correct.
 5            MS. DORN:  Your Honor, objection, relevance.  This is
 6  a document made in 1997.  The witness has stated -- has not
 7  stated that any of this stuff is stuff that was in place when
 8  he was the commander of the training division.  And this whole
 9  line of questioning is completely irrelevant to the matters at
10  issue.
11            THE COURT:  Is this a document -- is this the only
12  thing you have?  Do you have one that goes back to the '94
13  period?
14            MR. FUTTERMAN:  We have also the -- all we were given
15  was the '96 and the '97 curriculum, which are both after he
16  left.
17            THE COURT:  Why don't you lay a little better
18  foundation to make sure that this is something substantially
19  similar to what was in place at the time.
20            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Sure.
21  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
22  Q.  Can you take a moment just to review the general subject
23  matters at the top.
24       (Pause.)
25  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:

                                                                     990
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  Have you had an opportunity to review it?
 2  A.  Okay.
 3  Q.  Is this curriculum substantially similar to the curriculum
 4  that you taught in '95?
 5  A.  I honestly can't state it's substantially.  I can say that
 6  there are some topical areas here that are similar or the same.
 7  Q.  Okay.  Let me direct your attention back to page 10436.
 8            Now, is one of the things you taught when you were
 9  commander basic management principles?
10  A.  That I don't recall.  We did deal with some of the aspects
11  of managing people.  I'm not sure exactly whether or not it was
12  this same format and this same particular topical area though.
13  Q.  But generally, you believe it's important that lieutenants
14  know how to manage people?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And did you teach tips on how to create trust between
17  managers and employees?
18  A.  I believe we called it team building.  We did team building
19  type of presentations.
20  Q.  And so you taught how -- you taught ways in which to
21  develop a rapport with subordinates, is that right?
22  A.  Yes.
23  Q.  And how to assess and improve working situations for your
24  subordinates?
25  A.  Well, the more -- it was more a self-assessment of your

                                                                     991
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  leadership style and your ability to get people to follow your
 2  direction and guidance.
 3  Q.  So you're teaching leadership skills?
 4  A.  Correct.
 5  Q.  And guidance skills?
 6  A.  Correct.
 7  Q.  Counseling skills?
 8  A.  I believe so.  I'm not positive, though.
 9  Q.  Do you believe it's important for lieutenants to be good
10  counselors to their subordinates?
11  A.  At times it's important, yes.
12  Q.  Do you believe that mentoring is important as a Chicago
13  police lieutenant?
14  A.  In perspective of our current philosophy, yes, it is.
15            THE COURT:  Did you say "mentoring"?
16            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Mentoring.
17  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
18  Q.  Now, this job knowledge test that you stated you reviewed
19  on the written multiple choice test you stated you reviewed on
20  direct exam, right?
21  A.  Yes.
22  Q.  Okay.  Did you see any questions on the job knowledge tests
23  about tips that create trust between managers and employees?
24  A.  I don't think there was anything specifically stated in
25  that manner, no.

                                                                     992
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  Did you see -- did you see anything in the job knowledge
 2  test, questions about how to assess and improve working
 3  conditions of your subordinates?  Those sorts of tips, were
 4  those tested?
 5  A.  Well, yeah, I think that there were some that did allude to
 6  that based upon the decision that the supervisor was asked to
 7  make with regard to the performance of an individual and
 8  certain things that had to be done with regard to decisions
 9  which affected that person's job, whether it be counseling,
10  disciplinary action or some other intervention.
11  Q.  A decision to make -- but it didn't cover how to assess and
12  improve working conditions, did it?
13            MS. DORN:  Objection.  Asked and answered.
14            THE COURT:  Overruled.
15  BY THE WITNESS:
16  A.  I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to.  Are you
17  referring to a specific how to, something like that?
18  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
19  Q.  Right.
20  A.  No, I didn't see that.
21  Q.  Did the tests cover how to build teams or develop a rapport
22  with your subordinates?
23  A.  Not in that context, no.
24  Q.  I'd like you to turn to the next page, 10437.  There is
25  something called managing diversity.  Do you see that?

                                                                     993
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Yes.
 2  Q.  Do you believe that it's important for lieutenants to have
 3  the managerial skills needed for workplace diversity?
 4  A.  Yes.
 5  Q.  Did you teach that when you were commander?
 6  A.  Yes, we did.
 7  Q.  Did you see any questions on the job knowledge test about
 8  managerial skills needed for workplace diversity?
 9  A.  I believe there was some reference to sexual harassment,
10  which would be indicative of a hostile working environment on
11  the exam, on the written exam.
12  Q.  Anything else?
13  A.  I don't recall anything else.
14  Q.  I'm going to ask you just one more subject matter.  Turn to
15  page 10439.
16  A.  39?
17  Q.  Right.  It's in the back.
18            There is a topic called ethics, right?
19  A.  Yes.
20  Q.  Two hours are currently devoted to that topic?
21  A.  Yes.
22  Q.  And that explores ethical and moral issues pertaining to
23  law enforcement?
24  A.  Correct.
25  Q.  You didn't -- the test that you reviewed, the job knowledge

                                                                     994
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  test didn't test Chicago -- didn't test candidates' ethics or
 2  morals, did they?
 3  A.  I'm actually not sure if it did or not.  And I'm not sure
 4  if this is a subject matter that was addressed in 1994 and '5
 5  either.
 6  Q.  Do you remember seeing any questions that tested
 7  candidates' ethics or morals on the written test?
 8            MS. DORN:  Objection, asked and answered.
 9            MR. FUTTERMAN:  I believe it was asked, but I don't
10  believe it was answered.
11            MS. DORN:  I believe he said he wasn't sure.
12            THE COURT:  I'll let him ask it again.
13  BY THE WITNESS:
14  A.  Okay.  Again, my response is, I'm not sure.
15  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
16  Q.  I'd like to now talk about some of the things that were on
17  the job knowledge test.
18            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Should I keep going, Your Honor?
19            THE COURT:  Sure.  Let's go another ten minutes.
20            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Okay.
21  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
22  Q.  Do you still have a copy of the written test in front of
23  you?
24  A.  Yes, I do.
25  Q.  That's Defendant's Exhibit 14.

                                                                     995
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Yes, I have that one here.
 2  Q.  You still have it?  What you have in front of you is an
 3  actual copy of the 1994 lieutenants promotional test, right,
 4  the job knowledge portion?
 5  A.  Give me a second and I'll make sure that that's what I have
 6  here.
 7  Q.  Okay.  I believe it's labeled Defendant's Exhibit 14?
 8  A.  Yes, 14 is the Chicago police lieutenant written
 9  examination.
10  Q.  150 multiple-choice questions?
11  A.  Correct.
12  Q.  I'd like you to turn to page Bates stamped 8395.
13  A.  8395?
14  Q.  8395.
15  A.  Okay.
16  Q.  Okay.  Do you see question No. 87?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  Now, you reviewed this question, right?
19  A.  Yes.
20  Q.  And you approved it?
21  A.  Yes, I believe so.
22  Q.  And it asked about the crime of deception?
23  A.  Could I -- could I read it for a second?
24  Q.  Sure.
25  A.  Okay.

                                                                     996
                            DeLopez - cross
 1       (Pause.)
 2  BY THE WITNESS:
 3  A.  Okay.
 4  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:.
 5  Q.  It asked about the crime of deception, is that right?
 6  A.  Yes.
 7  Q.  And there is no correct answer to this question, is there?
 8  A.  Actually, no.  The alternative that was selected as correct
 9  is actually a definition.  It's not a crime.
10  Q.  There is no such crime as deception under the Illinois
11  criminal code, is that right?
12  A.  Correct.
13  Q.  I'd like you to look at question 103 on Bates 8402.  Tell
14  me when you are there.
15  A.  I'm there.
16  Q.  You also reviewed this question, right?
17  A.  Yes, I did.
18  Q.  You approved it?
19  A.  Yes.
20  Q.  Okay.  And this question asked about the crime of
21  harassment?
22  A.  I'll need a second to read it.
23  Q.  Sure.
24  A.  Thank you.
25       (Pause.)

                                                                     997
                            DeLopez - cross
 1            THE COURT:  103?
 2            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Correct, 103.
 3  BY THE WITNESS:
 4  A.  Okay.
 5  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
 6  Q.  That question asked about the crime of harassment, right?
 7  A.  Well, it asked to identify an offense from the selection
 8  available.
 9  Q.  Okay.  And the original correct answer was listed
10  harassment?
11  A.  Correct, number D, harassment.
12  Q.  But there really isn't any correct answer, is that right?
13  A.  Again, this is similar to the previous question.  It was a
14  definition rather than an offense.
15  Q.  There is no crime of harassment under the Illinois criminal
16  code, is that right?
17  A.  No.
18  Q.  Okay.  Are you aware of the results of the written exam?
19  Have you seen the results?
20  A.  No, I haven't.
21  Q.  Are you aware that on nearly 20 questions, more than half
22  of the candidates who took the test got them wrong?
23            THE COURT:  Got what wrong?
24  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
25  Q.  Got the questions wrong.  On more than 20 of the questions,

                                                                     998
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  more than half of the people who took the test got those
 2  questions wrong.  Are you aware of that?
 3  A.  Got that number, the same 20 questions wrong, is that what
 4  it was?
 5  Q.  Yes -- no.  Let me rephrase.
 6  A.  I'm not sure I understand the question.
 7  Q.  Sure, no problem.  I think it is a confusing question.  Let
 8  me think of a better way of asking it.
 9            Are you aware that there were a number of questions
10  on the written test that more than half the people who took the
11  test got those questions wrong?
12  A.  No.  I'm really not familiar with the statistical results,
13  no.
14  Q.  The results.  Okay.
15            I'm going to ask you to look at Plaintiffs' Exhibit
16  97.  And I'm going to give you a copy of it, which is also in
17  evidence.  Take a moment and take a look at question No. 120.
18       (Pause.)
19  BY THE WITNESS:
20  A.  Okay.
21  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
22  Q.  You reviewed this question, is that right?
23  A.  Correct.
24  Q.  And you approved it?
25  A.  Correct.

                                                                     999
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  And this question is about obtaining a search warrant for a
 2  kidnapping victim, is that right?
 3  A.  Well, it pertains to various grounds for issuance of a
 4  search warrant.
 5  Q.  The correct answer is D, about search warrant may be issued
 6  for the seizure of a person who has been kidnapped in violation
 7  of the laws of Illinois, is that correct?
 8  A.  Correct.
 9  Q.  In your time on the police department, have you ever
10  obtained a search warrant for a kidnapping victim?  Have you
11  ever applied for one?
12  A.  I have obtained -- one of my functions when I was assigned
13  to the youth division was to obtain a search warrant to search
14  a premise for an individual who had been missing and presumed
15  to have been kidnapped.
16  Q.  How many times has that happened in your experience over --
17  how many years have you been on the force?
18  A.  26 and a half.
19  Q.  How many times did that --
20  A.  I've done it one time.
21  Q.  How many times has that occurred in your 26 years, to your
22  knowledge, that you've been involved?
23  A.  Well, I've been involved directly one time.  I've
24  recommended two other times.
25  Q.  So you're saying when there is a kidnapping, a kidnapping

                                                                    1000
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  victim, who you have probable cause to believe is in a
 2  premises, you don't believe that's an exigent circumstance
 3  where you would need to obtain a warrant?
 4  A.  It may or may not be, depending on some of the other
 5  surrounding circumstances and conditions.  Certainly, if you
 6  were able to get a consent to search from the individual that
 7  had charge of those premises, that would certainly preclude the
 8  need to obtain a search warrant.
 9  Q.  If you believed that a kidnapping victim was locked up
10  inside of a house, are you going to wait and get a search
11  warrant or are you going to try to go in and rescue that
12  person?
13  A.  Hard to answer without all the circumstances.  Again, it
14  depends on the individual circumstances and my knowledge of
15  those circumstances at the time.
16  Q.  I'm going to give you another question.  I'd like you to
17  look at Plaintiffs' Exhibit 101.  And take your time and read
18  the question.  This is question No. 123 on the written test.
19            Commander, I apologize, if you can turn back --
20            MR. FUTTERMAN:  And I apologize, Your Honor.
21  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
22  Q.  -- turn back just one question about the last exhibit I
23  showed you, 97.  Looking at that exhibit, approximately 74
24  percent of the people who took the test got that question
25  wrong, is that right?

                                                                    1001
                            DeLopez - cross
 1            MS. DORN:  Objection, lack of foundation.
 2            THE COURT:  He said he doesn't know the results.
 3            MS. DORN:  He didn't say he knew the results, right.
 4            MR. FUTTERMAN:  It's indicated on the document which
 5  is in evidence.
 6            THE COURT:  Well, if the document is in evidence,
 7  that's fine.  It's in evidence.
 8            I mean, what are you asking him?  Are you having him
 9  repeat something that's in evidence?  You don't need to do
10  that.
11            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Okay.
12            THE COURT:  You don't need to do that.
13            Are all of these in evidence, all of these questions?
14            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Yes, the questions that I'm going to
15  ask him.
16            THE COURT:  Okay.
17            MS. DORN:  Yes.
18  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
19  Q.  I'm sorry.  Then if you could turn now back to the new
20  exhibit I just gave you, 101.
21            Now, that question is about affirmative defenses, is
22  that right?
23  A.  Correct.
24  Q.  In your lieutenants' management training program, do you
25  teach new lieutenants about affirmative defenses?

                                                                    1002
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  I don't recall the specific topical areas of the Illinois
 2  Compiled Statutes that we did cover.  I would have to make
 3  reference to the training program in effect at that time.
 4  Q.  Well, let's look at the current training program.  Do you
 5  still have 144 in front of you, which is a copy of the current
 6  curriculum?
 7  A.  Yes.
 8  Q.  Can you show me anywhere on there that the document shows
 9  that you currently teach new lieutenants about affirmative
10  defenses?
11            MS. DORN:  Objection, relevance and lack of
12  foundation.
13            THE COURT:  Overruled.
14  BY THE WITNESS:
15  A.  It would be in a criminal law topical area.  The only one I
16  see with regard to actual criminal law topical areas is legal
17  aspects of probable cause.  I don't know what that particular
18  two-hour block entails, though, with regard to specific
19  training.
20  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
21  Q.  Okay.  Legal aspects of probable cause is different than
22  affirmative defenses, isn't it?
23  A.  Well, again, I don't know.  Without actually looking at the
24  lesson plans to identify what it is that the law instructors
25  are teaching, I don't know.  With regard to specific topical

                                                                    1003
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  areas, many, many areas would be covered on criminal law.  I
 2  don't know if that is or isn't -- they're definitely
 3  specifically by definition, affirmative defense and probable
 4  cause are not the same thing.  I can answer that.
 5  Q.  Right.  Then let me ask you a subsequent question.
 6            When you're evaluating whether or not there is
 7  probable cause to arrest somebody, you don't look at whether
 8  there is an affirmative defense, that is not part of the
 9  evaluation, is it?
10  A.  Affirmative defense is not meant for probable cause.  It's
11  meant for trial purposes or defense purposes.
12  Q.  Okay.  I'm going to have you look at another exhibit,
13  Plaintiffs' Exhibit 103, also in evidence, which is question
14  124.
15  A.  Thank you.
16       (Pause.)
17  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
18  Q.  Have you had an opportunity to review it?
19  A.  Yes.
20  Q.  Now, 89 percent -- I'm sorry.
21            This question is about the duties of a judge, is that
22  right?
23  A.  Well, it's a question regarding knowledge about search
24  warrants.
25  Q.  But particularly the correct answer is about the duties of

                                                                    1004
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  a judge, that a judge upon request shall deliver a copy of the
 2  inventory to the person from whom articles are seized, is that
 3  right?
 4  A.  Among the alternatives, that would be the most correct
 5  answer.
 6  Q.  In your lieutenants' management training program, did you
 7  teach -- did you teach new lieutenants about the duties of a
 8  judge?
 9  A.  Again, I don't have specific recollection regarding the
10  subject matter of the training program other than some general
11  topical areas.  With regard to whether or not we covered search
12  warrants in our practical exercises and what some of the
13  responsibilities of individuals involved would be, that I don't
14  recall.  So I couldn't tell you if we did or didn't.
15  Q.  Well, do you feel it's important for Chicago police
16  lieutenants to know the duties of a judge?
17  A.  I think it's important for them to know some of the
18  contingencies involved with regard to either application for or
19  service of search warrants and what may occur with anything
20  that they might see certainly, because they're going to be
21  responsible for presentation of evidence testimony and
22  evidence.
23  Q.  When they're doing the job, they're not doing the duty of a
24  judge, are they?  They're doing the duty of a Chicago police
25  lieutenant?

                                                                    1005
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  Correct.
 2  Q.  One more question.  I'd like you to look at Plaintiffs'
 3  111, which is also in evidence.  This is question 132 on the
 4  test.
 5  A.  Okay.
 6  Q.  Now, approximately 94 percent of the people who took this
 7  test got this question wrong, is that right?
 8            MS. DORN:  Foundation.
 9            MR. FUTTERMAN:  I'm sorry, again, he said he didn't
10  know.  I apologize, Your Honor.
11  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
12  Q.  This question -- this question is regarding a call from a
13  citizen regarding obtaining a registration certificate for a
14  rifle, is that right?
15  A.  Correct.
16  Q.  And normally when a citizen calls in on the phone to the
17  police department, he's going to speak to a desk officer, is
18  that right?  Is that the normal course?
19  A.  That's probable.  But in light of, again, of our new
20  philosophy, what we're doing is we are not only encouraging,
21  we're requiring more interaction between all of our supervisor
22  ranks and the public.
23  Q.  When a citizen calls on the phone, he doesn't get connected
24  directly with the watch commander, does he?  When he's calling
25  about a question?

                                                                    1006
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  A.  The immediate responder is going to be a desk sergeant or a
 2  desk officer.  He may be then subsequently referred to the
 3  watch commander.
 4  Q.  Okay.  Now, the answer to this question is in the municipal
 5  code, is it not?
 6  A.  Correct.
 7  Q.  And a watch commander has a copy of the municipal code in
 8  his office, doesn't he?
 9            MS. DORN:  Foundation.
10  BY THE WITNESS:
11  A.  I can't speak to that.  It's a generality.  I don't know.
12  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
13  Q.  Do you have a copy of the municipal code in your office?
14  A.  Do I?  I do.
15  Q.  In your experience, about how many Chicago police districts
16  have you been in over your time as a commander, excuse me, as
17  your time as a police officer?
18  A.  In my time as a police officer?
19  Q.  Yes.
20  A.  Probably seven.
21  Q.  Seven districts?
22  A.  Uh-huh.
23  Q.  And that means you've worked in seven districts or you've
24  only been in seven districts?
25  A.  I've been assigned to.  I've experienced many, many more.

                                                                    1007
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  In all the experience -- in all the districts that you've
 2  experienced on your job, not just the ones that you were
 3  explicitly assigned to, is it your general experience that
 4  watch commanders have a copy of the municipal code in their
 5  office?
 6  A.  Well, I've got to -- I've got to refer to this in light of
 7  my progression in rank, because, you know, as a police officer
 8  and as a sergeant, I didn't have access to watch commanders'
 9  offices in most cases, because I was -- in general an area like
10  that you don't go to unless there is some specific functional
11  need.
12            With regard to my other responsibilities, I do have
13  more direct knowledge, especially when the watch commanders
14  were under my direct supervision.  I can answer in that
15  context.
16  Q.  Sure.
17  A.  My watch commanders were given copies of city ordinance
18  books.
19  Q.  And during your time when you were watch commander, did you
20  always keep a copy in your office?
21  A.  I had a copy accessible to me, not necessarily always in
22  the office.  I had a copy accessible to me.
23            THE COURT:  How much longer do you have?
24            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Five minutes.
25  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:

                                                                    1008
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  Q.  Do you still have a copy of Defendant's Exhibit 15, the
 2  in-basket test in front of you?
 3  A.  Yes.
 4            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Five minutes, no more.
 5  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
 6  Q.  You testified that you actually -- you reviewed this
 7  in-basket test, is that right?
 8  A.  Yes.
 9  Q.  Did you actually take it as well?
10  A.  No, I didn't.
11  Q.  Okay.  Now, this test required candidates to organize over
12  100 pages of written materials?
13  A.  Give me a second to refer to how many pages we have here.
14  Q.  Sure.
15  A.  I've got 95 pages here.
16  Q.  So it required the candidate to organize 95 pages of
17  written materials?
18  A.  Yes.
19  Q.  And then answer 60 multiple-choice questions?
20  A.  Yes, correct.
21  Q.  And candidates were given one and a half hours to do so, is
22  that correct?  One and a half hours to answer the
23  multiple-choice questions?
24  A.  To complete the test, yes.
25  Q.  Now, Chicago police lieutenants, they don't take

                                                                    1009
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  multiple-choice tests in the course of their duties as
 2  lieutenants, do they?
 3  A.  No.
 4  Q.  Okay.  Chicago police lieutenants don't generally have to
 5  organize 95 pages of written materials to begin their tour of
 6  duty, do they?
 7  A.  Well, I would have to say that would vary by assignment and
 8  responsibility and individual circumstance.  It's possible.
 9            If I could expound?
10  Q.  Sure.
11  A.  At times walking into a unit or to a district, you're the
12  watch commander or the unit commanding officer, you'll
13  experience what I like to refer to as total chaos.  I mean, you
14  could have a very serious situation going on.
15            You could have investigations which are in some state
16  of completion and need review.  You have material that has to
17  be reviewed, analyzed, integrated.
18            You have got about a 30-minute block of time to do
19  all this prior to roll call and prior to any of your superiors
20  asking you questions.  You could have a large investigation
21  thrust upon you that needs an approval and needs to be
22  expedited.  So it could be conceivable that it might be 95
23  pages, some of it related, some of it unrelated.
24  Q.  Is this a common occurrence, or is it a rare occurrence?
25  A.  Again, depending on where you work, what part of the city

                                                                    1010
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  and what your assignment is.  It could be something you could
 2  experience frequently.  In some parts of the city, some
 3  assignments, it would be very infrequent.
 4  Q.  So there are some assignments, you believe, that when
 5  lieutenants begin their tour of duty very frequently they would
 6  have 95 pages of materials to review before starting roll call?
 7  A.  If we look at the investigations which are required to be
 8  reviewed, probably, sure.
 9  Q.  Do Chicago police lieutenants receive their work through an
10  in-basket?
11  A.  Again, I guess it's by individual assignment and individual
12  location.  Some do, some don't.  Some receive it in a drawer
13  rather than a basket.  It's placed into a drawer.  Some receive
14  it in a folder.  Some actually receive it in an in-basket.
15  Q.  Do watch commanders have their own desk?
16  A.  It's a shared desk.
17  Q.  Shared desk.  With?
18  A.  With each subsequent watch commander.  All three watch
19  commanders share the same desk in the same office.
20  Q.  So when the watch commander -- when a particular watch
21  commander is on duty, that watch commander has his or her own
22  desk, is that right?
23  A.  Correct.
24  Q.  You stated also on direct that you've experienced or you've
25  known of situations where a lieutenant has taken over for

                                                                    1011
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  another lieutenant in the middle of an investigation, is that
 2  right?
 3  A.  Correct.
 4  Q.  During the last month when you've been at the 23rd District
 5  as commander, how many times has that happened?
 6  A.  Well, I couldn't rightly say how many times.
 7  Q.  In your district?
 8  A.  In my district, I couldn't even give you an approximation.
 9  Again, it would depend on the type of investigation we're
10  talking about.
11            If we're talking about responsibility for complaint
12  register investigations or things similar to that, in the past
13  month, past 30 days, probably at least once.
14            MR. FUTTERMAN:  One second, Your Honor.
15       (Discussion off the record.)
16            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Just about three or four more
17  questions and I'm done.
18  BY MR. FUTTERMAN:
19  Q.  With regard to the '94 lieutenants exam, did you work with
20  people in study groups to prepare for the exam?  Did you lead
21  any study groups?
22  A.  Prior to my becoming involved as a subject matter expert, I
23  was involved with a study preparation group.  Pardon me.  As
24  soon as I became involved as a subject matter expert, I
25  absented myself, divorced myself from the process and no longer

                                                                    1012
                            DeLopez - cross
 1  attended those sessions.
 2  Q.  In the course of while you were involved in those study
 3  groups, was it your experience that the Latino officers -- the
 4  Latino sergeants were involved, were they studying hard for the
 5  test?
 6  A.  Some were putting forth a great deal of effort.  Honestly,
 7  some weren't.
 8  Q.  Okay.  Do you in your -- based on your, based on your
 9  experience, that experience, did you find that as a general
10  matter that Latino sergeants were studying any less than white
11  sergeants?
12  A.  I don't know if I'm capable of answering that, because I
13  don't know what, what white sergeants were doing.
14  Q.  Do you know -- were white sergeants a part of your group at
15  all?
16  A.  Only one.
17            MR. FUTTERMAN:  I don't have anything further.
18            THE COURT:  Do you have any redirect?
19            MS. DORN:  Yes.
20            THE COURT:  After lunch then.  Okay.  One hour for
21  lunch.
22       (Recess at 12:25 p.m. until 1:25 p.m.)
23
24
25

                                                                    1013
 1                IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
                     NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
 2                         EASTERN DIVISION
 3  ERNEST T. BROWN, et al.,           )
                                       )
 4                Plaintiffs,          )
                                       )  No. 95 C 1890
 5           v.                        )  Chicago, Illinois
                                       )  December 1, 1997
 6  CITY OF CHICAGO,                   )  1:45 p.m.
                                       )
 7                 Defendant.          )
 8                             VOLUME 6
 9                 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS - TRIAL
10             BEFORE THE HONORABLE ROBERT W. GETTLEMAN
11  APPEARANCES:
12  For the Plaintiffs:           KENNETH N. FLAXMAN, P.C.
                                  122 South Michigan Avenue
13                                Suite 1850
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60603-6107
14                                BY:  MR. KENNETH N. FLAXMAN
15                                          and
16                                FUTTERMAN & HOWARD, CHTD.
                                  122 South Michigan Avenue
17                                Suite 1850
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60603
18                                BY:  MR. CRAIG FUTTERMAN
19
    For the Defendant:            MAYER, BROWN & PLATT
20                                190 South LaSalle Street
                                  Chicago, Illinois 60603
21                                BY:  MR. JAMES HOLZHAUER
                                       MR. JEFFREY S. PIELL
22                                     MS. ANGELA K. DORN
                                       MR. ANDREW NICELY
23
    Official Court Reporter:      JENNIFER S. COSTALES, CSR, RMR
24                                219 South Dearborn Street
                                  Room 1744-A
25                                Chicago, Illinois 60604
                                  (312) 427-5351

                                                                    1014
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1       (Proceedings in open court.)
 2            THE COURT:  Commander.
 3            Counsel.
 4            MS. DORN:  A few questions on redirect, Your Honor.
 5     JOSEPH D. DeLOPEZ, DEFENDANT'S WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN
 6                       REDIRECT EXAMINATION
 7  BY MS. DORN:
 8  Q.  Commander, do you have Plaintiffs' Exhibit 101 in front of
 9  you?
10  A.  Yes, I do.
11  Q.  That question is question No. 123 from the exam?
12  A.  Correct.
13  Q.  Now, could you take a moment and read that question.
14       (Pause.)
15  BY THE WITNESS:
16  A.  Okay, I've read it.
17  BY MS. DORN:
18  Q.  Commander, could you tell us what is this question about?
19  A.  This question is intended to identify knowledge regarding
20  affirmative defenses.  It deals with law, state law.
21  Q.  All right.  And is it important for a police officer to
22  know the age of a suspect?
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  Is it also important for a lieutenant to know this?
25  A.  Yes.

                                                                    1015
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1  Q.  And why is that?
 2  A.  Well, to ensure that constitutional rights are protected,
 3  to ensure guarantees regarding due process, to ensure
 4  appropriate charging in many cases.
 5  Q.  Okay.  You testified that you are a supporter of merit
 6  promotions, is that --
 7  A.  Yes.
 8  Q.  Do you think that merit promotions can be used for 100
 9  percent of the promotions to the position of lieutenant?
10            MR. FLAXMAN:  Objection.
11            THE COURT:  Whose got this witness now?
12            MR. FLAXMAN:  Well, it's his witness, but I was
13  making the objections before.  I thought for continuity I would
14  continue making the objections.  If Your Honor prefers, I'll
15  have Mr. Futterman make the objections.
16            THE COURT:  I don't want you double-teaming Ms. Dorn
17  here.  One of you is bad enough.  Two of you is impossible.
18            MR. FLAXMAN:  What's your pleasure, Judge?  I made
19  them before, but --
20            THE COURT:  I thought you turned the witness over to
21  Mr. Futterman.  Let Mr. Futterman make the objections.
22            MR. FLAXMAN:  Okay.
23            THE COURT:  What's the nature of the objection,
24  Mr. Futterman?
25            MR. FLAXMAN:  Mr. Futterman did not hear the

                                                                    1016
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1  question, which is --
 2            THE COURT:  All right.  I'll let you make this
 3  objection, Mr. Flaxman.  What's the nature of it?
 4            MR. FLAXMAN:  Nobody has asked him his opinion about
 5  whether promotions should be 100 percent by merit.  Nobody has
 6  proposed promotions should be 100 percent by merit.
 7            THE COURT:  No.  But it's a follow-up to your
 8  question about whether merit selection was a good -- was fair,
 9  was a good process and all that sort of thing.  Overruled.
10            Maybe Mr. Futterman will do better.
11  BY THE WITNESS:
12  A.  May I have the question again, please?
13  BY MS. DORN:
14  Q.  My question was:  Do you think that merit promotions can be
15  used for 100 percent of the promotions for the position of
16  lieutenant?
17  A.  No, I don't.
18  Q.  And can you tell us why?
19  A.  I think that when we're looking at making decisions with
20  regard to selecting candidates for a position of
21  responsibility, we need to have a broad spectrum of choices and
22  evaluation tools.  Merit promotion is certainly one of those,
23  and I think a very valid one.  But I don't think it should be
24  the only one.
25  Q.  Thank you.

                                                                    1017
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1            Now, in your experience, you also talked about on
 2  cross, you talked about your experience in various districts
 3  where you worked in or where you visited your business within
 4  the Chicago police department, correct?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6  Q.  In your experience in the districts that you visited, have
 7  you -- have there been complete and current sets of all of the
 8  general orders, special orders, municipal code materials and
 9  ILCS materials within those different districts?
10            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Objection, foundation.  We don't know
11  which districts he's visited.
12            THE COURT:  In the ones he's visited.  He said he's
13  been into about seven of them as I remember.
14  BY THE WITNESS:
15  A.  In --
16            THE COURT:  Can you answer that generally, or does it
17  vary district to district?
18            THE WITNESS:  It does vary from district to district.
19  In some cases there haven't been complete sets of all reference
20  materials.  In some cases, depending on some of the individuals
21  involved, there have been.
22            THE COURT:  Should there be?
23            THE WITNESS:  I feel there should be.
24  BY MS. DORN:
25  Q.  Commander, did you take a written exam to become a sergeant

                                                                    1018
                               DeLopez -
 1  with the Chicago Police Department?
 2  A.  Yes, I did.
 3  Q.  And did you take a written exam to become a lieutenant with
 4  the Chicago Police Department?
 5  A.  Yes.
 6            MS. DORN:  Nothing further.
 7            THE COURT:  Anything further, Mr. Futterman?
 8            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Nothing further, Your Honor.
 9            THE COURT:  Commander, I just want to make sure I
10  understand something here.
11            If I were to look into the personnel file of a
12  sergeant in the police department, what would I find in there
13  with respect to his performance?
14            THE WITNESS:  The personnel records which are kept on
15  an individual sergeant would contain information regarding
16  performance evaluation, medical roll history, awards that were
17  presented by the department or by outside agencies that
18  recognized the individual for some outstanding acts, serious
19  disciplinary actions toward this individual also.
20            THE COURT:  Only serious disciplinary actions?
21            THE WITNESS:  Well, serious would be retained for a
22  period of five years.  Minor would be retained for a period of
23  one year.  So depending on how one were looking at this in
24  perspective, with respect to the individual's infractions --
25            THE COURT:   Okay.

                                                                    1019
                               DeLopez -
 1            THE WITNESS:  They may or may not be there.  Serious
 2  would be there for five years.
 3            THE COURT:  Okay.  Anything else?
 4            THE WITNESS:  Personal history, certainly.
 5  Educational achievement, language skills, that type of thing.
 6            THE COURT:  If they were -- if they went to some of
 7  these courses, I think, like one of the witnesses testified
 8  earlier like to the Northwestern course or the Quantico course,
 9  would that be in there?
10            THE WITNESS:  If the individual had prepared the
11  necessary notification and submitted that, yes.  It's encumbent
12  on the individual to document that, though.
13            THE COURT:  Well, I thought the police department
14  sends people to these courses?
15            THE WITNESS:  Well, that we do.  But other
16  educational achievement that is conducted at the officer's own
17  expense or on their own time must be documented by them.
18            THE COURT:  I see.  And to the extent that the
19  department provided that, that would be in there?
20            THE WITNESS:  There would be a reflection of that,
21  yes.
22            THE COURT:  Okay.  Now, performance evaluations, tell
23  me about them.
24            THE WITNESS:  Well, performance evaluation, we
25  currently use a trait rating type system.  We rate five traits.

                                                                    1020
                               DeLopez -
 1  An individual is given a numerical score for these five traits.
 2  It's based on performance for a six-month period.
 3            The reference that we use with regard to personnel
 4  background, in some of the cases, like the merit promotions,
 5  would use at least the last two current performance ratings.
 6            THE COURT:  So who does this performance rating?
 7            THE WITNESS:  Performance rating is done by the
 8  individual's immediate supervisor.
 9            THE COURT:  And you say "six-month periods."  What do
10  you mean by that?
11            THE WITNESS:  The prior six-month period of time is
12  the time that the person is evaluated for.
13            THE COURT:  Is this a particular six-month period?
14            THE WITNESS:  Yes.  It's -- currently the year is
15  broken down into two segments annually, by calendar.  The first
16  six months of the year is evaluated as one block of time.  And
17  then the second six months is evaluated as a second block of
18  time.
19            THE COURT:  I see, I see.  Okay.  Does the officer
20  get to look at the personnel file ever?
21            THE WITNESS:  Upon their request, they can.  They can
22  view it.  It's currently computerized, so they do need some
23  advance notice to the personnel division, and they do have
24  access to their personnel file.
25            THE COURT:  What about citizen complaints, would that

                                                                    1021
                               DeLopez -
 1  be in there?
 2            THE WITNESS:  It's not in there, per se.  It's kept
 3  in a separate confidential file kept by internal affairs.  That
 4  is not generally viewed by anyone unless there is some need to
 5  refer to some current disciplinary action that is dependent
 6  upon past disciplinary action.
 7            THE COURT:  So only if there was disciplinary action
 8  as a result of the complaint would it be in the personnel file?
 9            THE WITNESS:  Well, it would be viewed or for use in
10  some forms of promotion, like merit promotion.  The actual file
11  wouldn't be, but a summary of the infractions would be given at
12  that time.  The actual file is only viewed by personnel that
13  have charge of that file in internal affairs or the
14  superintendent or who he designates to view that file.
15            THE COURT:  What about arrest record?
16            THE WITNESS:  Those -- the individual's activity and
17  performance with regard to their particular assignment or
18  function is generally something that's kept by their particular
19  unit or their district.
20            THE COURT:  Would you want to look at that for a
21  merit promotion?
22            THE WITNESS:  I would want to look at not only the
23  activity, but in some cases the nature of the activities.  I'd
24  want a final breakdown.  I would want to know not just arrest
25  activity but the type of arrests.

                                                                    1022
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1            THE COURT:  Now, you just said a moment ago that you
 2  thought merit selection was an important element of any type of
 3  promotion.
 4            THE WITNESS:  Yes, sir.
 5            THE COURT:  Okay.  Was that statement, in your view,
 6  valid for promotion to lieutenant?
 7            THE WITNESS:  Yes, it was, sir.
 8            THE COURT:  Was there ever any discussion in the
 9  period of time you were helping draft this test to incorporate
10  some type of merit selection component?
11            THE WITNESS:  It wasn't discussed until subsequent to
12  the exam.
13            THE COURT:  Okay.  After the results.
14            THE WITNESS:  Afterwards.
15            THE COURT:  Okay.  But it wasn't discussed at all
16  prior to this?
17            THE WITNESS:  Not by me.  I don't know if anyone else
18  did, but I didn't.
19            THE COURT:  Right.
20            Okay.  That's all I have.
21            Any questions based on what I just asked?
22            MS. DORN:  Just a couple.
23                       REDIRECT EXAMINATION
24  BY MS. DORN:
25  Q.  Commander DeLopez, isn't it true that most Chicago police

                                                                    1023
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1  officers feel that performance ratings are not reliable?
 2            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Objection.
 3            THE COURT:  Sustained.
 4            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Their feeling.
 5            THE COURT:  Sustained.
 6            MS. DORN:  Belief.
 7            THE COURT:  Sustained.
 8            He can't tell you what most Chicago policemen feel or
 9  believe.
10  BY MS. DORN:
11  Q.  How useful have performance evaluations been in the past?
12  A.  Well, for some time for promotion to many ranks, the
13  department has not used performance evaluation as one of the
14  criteria, partly because the system -- it's limited, especially
15  since 1992 in light of our change in philosophy.  It doesn't
16  measure results.
17            It only measures the five traits, as I said earlier.
18  It's not a true evaluation tool in light of problem solving,
19  which we're requesting officers to be more involved in now.  So
20  it doesn't have a total and complete relationship to the full
21  function of a police officer at this point.
22  Q.  And would you base -- strike that.
23            Currently, is there a good spread within performance
24  evaluations, meaning are most people rated within the same
25  range?

                                                                    1024
                          DeLopez - redirect
 1            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Objection.
 2            THE COURT:  Well, based on your knowledge.
 3  BY THE WITNESS:
 4  A.  Based on my knowledge, people generally are falling into
 5  the acceptable, or what I would call an acceptable range, above
 6  85 numerically.
 7  BY MS. DORN:
 8  Q.  So most people fall within the range of 85 to 100?
 9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  Under the current system?
11  A.  Correct.
12            MS. DORN:  Thank you.
13            THE COURT:  What are these five traits?  I meant to
14  ask that.
15            THE WITNESS:  They're dependability, dependability,
16  attendance and promptness, personal relationships, quality of
17  work, and quantity of work.
18            THE COURT:  Okay.
19            Anything else?
20            MR. FUTTERMAN:  Nothing else, Your Honor.
21            THE COURT:  Okay.
22            Commander, thank you very much.
23            THE WITNESS:  Thank you, sir.
24            THE COURT:  You're excused.
25       (Witness excused.)

                                                                    1025
                             Mial - direct
 1            THE COURT:  Any more defense witnesses?
 2            MR. HOLZHAUER:  No.  Nothing more in our case in
 3  chief.
 4            THE COURT:  Okay.
 5            Mr. Flaxman, it is your show.  But before you start
 6  your show, tell me what your plan is.
 7            MR. FLAXMAN:  We have one witness today, Sergeant
 8  Mial.  And I think we'll be done by 3:00, if not earlier.  We
 9  have three witnesses tomorrow, an expert who will be as short
10  or as long as Dr. Levitt, a plaintiff who might be two hours,
11  Holly Robinson, and a lieutenant, Maurice Brown, who probably
12  will be short.
13            THE COURT:  Okay.  Good.  All right.  Call your next
14  witness.
15            MR. FLAXMAN:  Sergeant Mial, plaintiffs' rebuttal
16  witness.
17            THE COURT:  You have some exhibits up here.  I don't
18  know whose they are.
19            Please raise your right hand.
20       (Witness duly sworn.)
21             PAUL D. MIAL, PLAINTIFFS' WITNESS, SWORN
22                        DIRECT EXAMINATION
23  BY MR. FLAXMAN:
24  Q.  Could you state your name and spell your last name for us,
25  please.

                                                                    1026
                             Mial - direct
 1  A.  My name is Paul D. Mial, M-i-a-l.
 2  Q.  And what is your business or occupation?
 3  A.  I'm a Chicago police sergeant.
 4  Q.  When did you first start to work for the Chicago Police
 5  Department?
 6  A.  The 26th of April 1976.
 7  Q.  And how old were you then?
 8  A.  33 or so.
 9  Q.  And what did you do before you started to work for the
10  Chicago Police Department?
11  A.  I was a manager of a retail department store located in
12  Chicago.
13  Q.  What kind of work did you do as a manager in a retail
14  department store?
15  A.  Well, you manage various departments within the retail
16  chain, domestics, men's, women, similar to Sears.
17  Q.  Now, you were born in 1945, is that right?
18  A.  That's correct.
19  Q.  So in 1976 you were 31 years old?
20  A.  Okay.
21  Q.  Okay.  Did you take a pay cut to be a Chicago police
22  officer?
23  A.  $8,000.
24  Q.  Why did you do that?
25  A.  For sense of stability in that I was going from city to

                                                                    1027
                             Mial - direct
 1  city within the chain doing various trouble shooting.
 2  Q.  Now, you're currently a sergeant.  When did you become a
 3  sergeant?
 4  A.  In December of 1988.
 5  Q.  When did you finish high school, if you remember that?
 6  A.  Actually, I didn't graduate from high school.  I graduated
 7  from the CLEP program in about '73 or '4.
 8  Q.  After getting a high school equivalency --
 9  A.  Yes, sir.
10  Q.  -- certificate, did you continue your education?
11  A.  Yes.  I went on to receive a bachelor's from Lewis
12  University.
13  Q.  In what -- is that bachelor's in any particular field of
14  study?
15  A.  Criminal and social justice.
16  Q.  When did you receive that?
17  A.  About 1991 or so.
18  Q.  Have you taken or continued your education beyond the
19  bachelor's level?
20  A.  Yes.  I'm presently enrolled in a master's of theology
21  program in which I expect to finish my master's in '98.
22  Q.  Did you take the 1994 lieutenants test?
23  A.  Yes, I did.
24  Q.  Did you study for it?
25  A.  Yes, I did.

                                                                    1028
                             Mial - direct
 1  Q.  Now, let me show you what's been Bates stamped as page 298
 2  of Defendant's Exhibit 1.  Did you see this examination
 3  announcement on or about April 29th, 1994?
 4  A.  Yes, I did.
 5  Q.  Had you started to study for the lieutenants test before
 6  you saw that job announcement?
 7  A.  Yes, I had.
 8  Q.  What had you done to study before you saw that exam
 9  announcement?
10  A.  I've always maintained a volume of current general orders,
11  special orders, department notices, rules and regulations, law
12  questions, law books, municipal ordinances.
13            And there had been rumor prior to the posting of this
14  notification that there would be an exam.  So keeping them
15  updated, I began to review and search out other avenues for
16  study.
17  Q.  When you say you "began to review," what exactly did you
18  review?
19  A.  All of the present orders, all of the past orders to verify
20  that I had everything current, up-to-date, that my law
21  directory, little booklet that we obtained, was present and
22  current and up-to-date, as well as some additional mock study
23  courses on how to take exams, how to study for police-related
24  supervisory exams.
25  Q.  Now, let me show you what's been Bates stamped as pages 234

                                                                    1029
                             Mial - direct
 1  through 238 of Defendant's Exhibit 1.  Did you see this reading
 2  list on or about September 12th of 1994?
 3  A.  Yes, I did.
 4  Q.  And what did you do when you saw that reading list for the
 5  lieutenants test?
 6  A.  I immediately went and separated these specific orders,
 7  special orders and questions relating to law, and put them in a
 8  binder by themselves.
 9  Q.  When you say "put them in a binder," what exactly did you
10  put in a binder?
11  A.  The general orders, the special orders, and all of the
12  written directives that were listed on the study guide.
13  Q.  Okay.  Did that fit in one binder?
14  A.  After I had separated them from the total list of which I
15  had accumulated the department orders, it did.
16  Q.  Okay.  Did you study those directives that you put
17  together?
18  A.  Yes, I did, considerably.
19  Q.  Did you study those with other people who were studying for
20  the test?
21  A.  Yes, I did.
22  Q.  Now, did you take part in what has been referred to during
23  this trial as a study group?
24  A.  Yes, I did.
25  Q.  How many different study groups did you take part in in

                                                                    1030
                             Mial - direct
 1  preparation for the 1994 lieutenants test?
 2  A.  A minimum of three.
 3  Q.  Let's talk about the first one.  Was the first study group
 4  sponsored by a particular organization?
 5  A.  The African-American Patrolmen League.
 6  Q.  And how often would you attend that study group?
 7  A.  Probably once a week.
 8  Q.  And how long -- how much time did you spend at each study
 9  group at the African-American Patrolmen's League study group?
10  A.  Minimum one hour, sometimes three.
11  Q.  How many other people were there in the study group?
12  A.  It varied from meeting to meeting, between 18 to 25 or so.
13  Q.  And what would happen at these study groups, at the Afro
14  study group?
15  A.  Each member would be assigned a specific function.  To take
16  a general order or -- excuse me -- or a department notice and
17  to create five questions with the correct and alternative
18  answers and submit them to the coordinators, of which they
19  would compile and make a test for the following week.  Our
20  instructions were to go to the meat of what we determined to be
21  relevant.
22  Q.  Did you do your best to memorize the general orders in the
23  study group?
24  A.  Yes, I did.
25  Q.  Did you do your homework each week?

                                                                    1031
                             Mial - direct
 1  A.  Yes, I did.
 2  Q.  You said there were some other study groups.  What was the
 3  second study group?
 4  A.  I live in the 3rd District.  And there were sergeants in
 5  the 3rd District as well as the 4th Districts who are friends
 6  of mine.  And we often, sometimes once a week, sometimes twice
 7  a week, we would gather together and go over the information
 8  collectively and review and prompt each other as it relates to
 9  the oral exam, as well as other mock tests.
10  Q.  And you said there was a third study group.  What was that?
11  A.  I had about five or six friends of mine who were
12  specifically -- they indicated to me that they were extremely
13  serious.  So we would get together once or twice a week and we
14  would review again information that maybe we had gotten from
15  another group.
16  Q.  In addition to these study groups that you told us about,
17  did you have a study partner?
18  A.  Yes, I did.
19  Q.  And who was that?
20  A.  My most sincere study partner was my wife.
21  Q.  Okay.
22  A.  Who would review the information with me.
23  Q.  Your wife isn't a police officer?
24  A.  No, she's not.
25  Q.  Did you have any other study partner?

                                                                    1032
                             Mial - direct
 1  A.  I was in a study group with Lieutenant Maurice Brown, who
 2  helped us considerably, offering mock exams and overall
 3  information on test taking.
 4  Q.  Okay.  Now, were there any other study groups that you knew
 5  about that you tried to get into?
 6  A.  Yes.
 7  Q.  And is there -- were you able to get into any study group
 8  that you wanted to get into?
 9  A.  No.
10  Q.  Okay.  Is there one in particular that you wanted to get
11  into that you couldn't get into?
12  A.  Well, there was a study group that was run by the deputy
13  superintendent, Charles Roberts, of which had been going on and
14  to a group of persons.  When I made an attempt to become a part
15  of that study group, I was informed that I would need a letter
16  from my exempt to be a part of that program.  I wasn't able to
17  get into it.
18  Q.  Now, Charles Roberts, is he the same man who is now the
19  head of the training academy?
20  A.  Yes, he is.
21  Q.  How did you study with your wife?
22  A.  We always kept general orders, special orders in the car or
23  at home or in her office.  She would review the mock questions
24  that I had accumulated in the other study groups.  And if there
25  was the least bit of uncertainty, we would pull out the order

                                                                    1033
                             Mial - direct
 1  and verify the correct answer.
 2            We would put specific questions that were -- I was
 3  not as quite as comfortable with on a tape recorder.  Then I
 4  would pop them into the car or home and play them back to
 5  myself, as well as listening at bedtime.
 6  Q.  During the time that you were preparing for the test, did
 7  you take a vacation?
 8  A.  Yes.
 9  Q.  Where did you go?
10  A.  We went to Negril, Jamaica.
11  Q.  Did you take your study materials with you?
12  A.  Yes, I did.  It had its own suitcase.
13  Q.  You're currently working as a Chicago police lieutenant --
14  a Chicago police sergeant, is that right?
15  A.  I'll take the first one.
16  Q.  You're currently a sergeant, is that right?
17  A.  Yes.
18  Q.  Do you know enough about the general orders, the special
19  orders, the municipal ordinances and the statutes of the State
20  of Illinois to do your job?
21  A.  Yes, I do.
22  Q.  The contention -- well, you didn't get promoted to
23  lieutenant as a result of this test, did you, Sergeant?
24  A.  No, I did not.
25  Q.  The contention has been made that the minority sergeants

                                                                    1034
 1  who didn't do well on this test didn't study hard.  Could you
 2  have done anything more than what you did to study for this
 3  test?
 4  A.  No, I could not have.
 5            MR. PIELL:  Objection.  Your Honor, objection, lack
 6  of foundation and stating evidence that's not in the record
 7  before, Your Honor.
 8            THE COURT:  I am striking everything except the
 9  question.
10            MR. FLAXMAN:  How about the answer?
11            THE COURT:  Not the answer.  I said strike everything
12  except the question and the answer.
13            MR. FLAXMAN:  Thank you.  Nothing further.
14            THE COURT:  Any cross-examination, folks?
15            MR. PIELL:  One minute.  It won't be more than that.
16       (Proceedings in open court.)
17            MR. PIELL:  Your Honor, no cross-examination.
18            THE COURT:  Okay, fine.  Sergeant, thank you very
19  much.  You're excused.
20            THE WITNESS:  Thank you.
21       (Witness excused.)
22            MR. FLAXMAN:  We have no additional live testimony
23  today.
24            THE COURT:  Okay.
25            I've been thinking about where we are going to go

                                                                    1035
 1  after your witnesses are done tomorrow.  You're submitting an
 2  awful lot of papers here that I haven't really seen discussed
 3  at the trial, which is fine, and some depositions too, I take
 4  it, which you're not going to bother reading in, I hope.  And I
 5  think we should probably talk about the wisest course to take
 6  after this is over to reach an expeditious, proper decision.
 7            I probably am going to ask you to brief the case.
 8  You folks, particularly Mr. Flaxman, have been living with this
 9  for a long time, and I think the Court would benefit by
10  briefing.  I don't always take briefing, but I think it's
11  appropriate in this case.  And I'd want to do that sooner
12  rather than later.  I probably will actually set this for
13  argument as well, because I am likely to have questions for
14  you.  So that's what I'm thinking.  I don't have my calendar
15  with me today.  We can take care of that tomorrow.  But I
16  wanted to have the benefit of my --
17            MR. HOLZHAUER:  I think that's the right course.
18            THE COURT:  -- current thoughts.
19            I know Mr. Flaxman sort of -- his body language tells
20  me he'd rather not do it.  But I think you'd rather put your
21  case on in the best way possible, and I think that's the best
22  way to do it, very frankly.
23            So I guess that's it for today.
24            MR. HOLZHAUER:  Yes.
25            THE COURT:  All right.

                                                                    1036
 1            MR. FLAXMAN:  What time tomorrow do you think?
 2            THE COURT:  You know, we can be optimistic, and I'm
 3  always later than I would like, but why don't we say quarter to
 4  10:00 tomorrow.  That's safe.  That's pretty safe.  Okay.  I'll
 5  see you tomorrow.
 6       (Adjournment 2:20 p.m. until 10:00 o'clock a.m., December
 7       2, 1997.)
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part 7

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